I think loan is never a good idea
A lot has been said here. Please do not misunderstand me and don’t get lured by what I am going to put down here. It’s been years of struggle to understand options behavior and attempt of governing fear and greed. Not been an easy task for me either. My story is almost similar.
1. 2018-2019:
My options Journey started in the year 2019, and I was earning well from my software dev job. It looks so easy to earn from the market, and so difficult to accept the defeat! I was winning - loosing- winning -loosing. Was buying options as well as selling. Tried all sorts of strategies and none worked out for me. I can say, I had no patience at all and more than greed fear of loss used to control me.
2. 2019-2020
Oh…I had more green days than red!! But what? lost more than 6L. Sheer disappointment and I started skipping trading from october. The month of Mar 2020 seemed greener, but then COVID hit and had no guts to continue.
3. 2020-2021
It seemed everyone else was earning like hell from market owing to high premiums and I couldn’t resist from April. Immediately burnt my finger, not knowing how to manage the trades, losses were quick! After heavy loss in April and May, I went very slow and observant from June. Believe me, my recovery started from June and continued good till Mar 2021.
4. 2021-2022
This year, I thought I will end green. My confidence boosted, my faith in strategies had grown. Despite, I couldn’t manage profit. Because, on loss days I had heavy losses and profit days were booked early.
5. 2022-2023
First half of the year, I really played well. I made sure, my losses are lesser than profits and there is consistency. But from october, I started changing my strategies hoping for better and started taking more hit. This resulted more brokerage and charges and lower confidence on self. Any how closed green first time ever after five long years.
6. 2023-2024.
Okay, this year looks same as 18-19 on first look!! Specially the second half. But Green days were better than loss days. The risk reward was well maintained. The result?? A greener ending!
7. 2024-2025 (Till date).
This year, I scaled up with confidence! Started trading on my wife’s account (To save tax). Obviously, May was an easier month for all. But I hope ( & pray), thee rest of the year also I will play well.
Here are few lines from Me (Will be happy, if it helps someone):
- If you can’t control your psychology/mind, you will never be able to trade.
- trading is not gambling, it’s rather game of probability and money management.
- You can never learn or copy from other people’s strategies. Make your own, then only it will boost your confidence.
- Be ready for accidents, spikes, broker down etc.
- Be humble - No one knows what strikes us tomorrow. I have faith but not confident what will be tomorrows situation.
- Greed and Fear both kills.
- Skill level requirement Option buying> Directional Selling > Non directional Selling.
Please, again I say, do not copy me as example. Everyone’s journey has different path, and I am still a beginner learning every day!!!
18 Likes
trade only in nifty 50 bro that make you better
I read your post and at that time I was in 14 lakhs of loss and I got motivated and took more 5 lakhs of personal loan and lost all now my total debt is 20+ lakhs.
Now, most of the time I feel like I should not have been alive. Having suicidal thoughts and reading and watching suicide stories. In the age of supporting my family, I became a burden for them and now because of all this I started ignoring my friends and families. I cannot sleep properly. The last time I was happy has July 4, 2023. I don’t know why I am sharing this but deep down I want to live and give back all the happiness to my parents but the situation I am going through is pushing me to end my life.
-
Get some hobbies and completely disengage from markets.
Stop reading news, stop coming here to forum, stop listening to any random person who claims he did this or that. Assume that most of them are probably lying or deceiving themselves or got lucky and you wont get that luck. Luck is for gamblers and gamblers lose overall.
Read a book ffs or whatever appeals to you. Go for walks and look around. Plenty of people in worse situations than you are in unfortunately in this country. -
20L is still manageable amount. Work on career. Personal loans generally i think wont be given beyond what banks think you can manage. So work for it and go debt free. In a few years you can be debt free and this will be history.
1 Like
Sharing something like this in a public forum is probably the hardest thing, but it is actually a good sign and a step in the right direction, as it means you have accepted it and are making progress.
I feel bad for everyone who lost a sizeable sum of money in the FNO.
But i believe living to tell the tale is important. So please don’t have such suicidal thoughts.
Change can only begin when we start to accept our mistakes and move on.
No amount of advice/guidance from others can help, unless we are willing to change.(It may not be easy)
There is no better counsellor in the world than our inner voice (conscience).
Everyone has a purpose in this world and life doesn’t end because we can’t bear the shits it throws at us, we can survive anything if we have the WILL and some moral support from family and friends.
I know it is easier said than done, but certainly life is not so trivial.
In future, i want to hear stories from everyone here, who have lost their money, but they managed to survive.
1 Like
This time after losing 90% of 5 lakhs. I tried slowly and recovered till 2.5 lakhs and one day I again started watching the youtube trading live of sensex expiry and due to YouTuber’s excited calls then I triggered and at that moment I forgot my plan of slow recovery and lost all in the wrong call.
I know it’s not her fault because 90% of influencers on youtube are fake, it’s us who are bewakoof and supported them and made them rich.
I tried a lot now to stop my self from thinking of anything wrong but from last two hours I am getting frustrated and thinking that why I did take so dumb decision of trading after loss of 40K only last year. Till June 2023 I was so happy that I have graduated with good CGPA and got a good job, I can help my family, after that I started trading, I am hoping that on the same day when I started trading I should have got a heart attack. This is the last message here because I don’t want to bore anyone here. I will try for one last time to stop otherwise this message and my last post will be a reference or warning for beginner traders/gamblers.
1 Like
There are many mistakes, not just following youtube
-
Taking loan again.
-
Assuming that your slow recovery system has an edge. Usually, high win rate means that few trades will wipe out gains atleast. Markets don’t give free money, we have to earn it. So it would have happened again anyway. Dont give yourself false hope.
-
90% Drawdown + 5 times from 50k and calling it ‘slow’.
No serious professional trader trades this way. Only gamblers. Ideally we need to keep it within 10-15% of capital. This might depend on person, 50% ? 90%? No.
And this on its own wont make you money and without edge anyway you will breach any limit either quickly or slowly.
And aim is to make say 30% returns in a year. Perhaps more, but you think 5x increase in capital is slow …
Bhai jo ho gaya woh ho gaya. Because of frustration, dont dig deeper. We said same thing when you lost 9L. Now that is more. It will keep increasing if you keep trading looking at other people.
I had to wait for 5+ years before i had something that worked. Until then i preserved my capital, no question of taking loan. You cant just start trading anything without working and expecting it to work.
Markets dont give easy feedback. In short term, they might reward you for doing the wrong thing. Short term returns are more or less random and edge play out over large sample of trades.
Just seeing pnl increase for short period, people get excited and make mistakes. Or they lose and for some reason decide that they will recover money from market only.
There is ample evidence that you do not have the mindset to wait and you take reckless risks trying to recover money.
Accept that you made mistake, that you need to work to recover and there is not quick fix by taking loan and trading again. if you read this post, let it be the last post you read in any trading forum. Stop looking at market news, Just disengage completely and focus on your work and upskill, and try to get into some hobbies - books/ music /fitness etc.
Live frugally, Hopefully in few years you will pay off your loans and then you can start saving for retirement like most people. Good luck.
You are a kid {in your mind}, you have not seen real life! And the real point is you never tried to reduce losses {simple common sense) even if we told you in the past. Self Discipline is a thing which you really don’t have. Hold on, you got to see the real life who are your family friends or who are you? Life is a journey of self-discovery and also finding your own way. I don’t know what your religion is but try reading Mahabharat and Bhagvat Gita that will help.
You are earning 1.75L / month.
Why do you feel the need to trade?
Note about trading options: Options rely on volatility. be it buy side or sell side.
you can make money in options only during high volatility periods(assuming you have experience). So when volatility is low premiums are low. so hard to make money consistently.
When volatility is high, its very risky on sell side , but premiums are good.
This is very much like a making money in bull run. everyone is an expert in bull run. so is everyone an options expert when volatility is high. but when its low, you cannot make money consistently.
Looking at your history of trades and behaviour , you are not suitable for trading profession. This is the harsh reality you must face. if you cannot and don’t want to face the reality and still trade on hopes of recovery. you are a fool.
Absolutely right, just a 6 min video showing how one can basically never recover from big drawdowns past a certain point.
1 Like
Going through the same phase sir… Can u please provide ur email ID?
Still I am struggling to get the consistency. may a email or chat can help me
Options trading is very lucrative, reading through your thread get me chills as how you just became more and more trapped into it and from what’s the psychological disgrace you have gone, probably it may have affected your day to day life very badly. I hope you are doing well now.
As i can get it, you have gone from intense desperation and impatient while you made losses, but you have to understand that there is no easy money in the market, in the sense, you cannot earn a sustainable income if you are doing trading casually, you HAVE TO be professional in it, there is no other way.
Masters say trading is a game of 80% psychology and 20% analysis. Greed, Fear, FOMO, all emotions will overpower you if you are impatience. The basic human psychology is when there is loss, our mind first try to avoid it, like if it wants escape from it, but when there is profit, our mind wants to book it ASAP. Why? Because it just don’t want it to go by any chance.
One suggestion i would like to give If you can master just one quality, ie, patience, all other emotions will come down, because when there is patience, intelligence prevails.
1 Like
You surely are an inspiration.
You have clearly explained your journey. This journey would have provided you several learnings which will help in the coming years. I appreciate the patience you had and moving forward slowly in the trading journey. Lot of things to learn!
Some of the suggestions from my end.
- Stop trading now as the loss you had encountered is too much for you to handle.
- Pay off the loans from the salary by saving and reducing your expenses.
- Don’t ever think of recovering the losses. This will lead to increasing the losses as your state of mind is not right for trading. Please understand strategy is 10% and psychology is 90% in trading. If you want to be successful you need to have proper risk management, money management and discipline to follow the rules you have defined.
- Still if you are interested in trading, please spend time learning, defining strategies, backtesting them, analyse the result, do live trading without real money. Monitor live trading for 6 months. Analyse live trading data with backtesting data and ensure the results are somewhat similar. Then deploy very low capital and start trading with live money. But have the discipline to follow the defined rules, risk management and money management. After 6 months evaluate the result and if you are able to make money then slowly increase the capital. In my opinion this entire exercise will take atleast 1-1.5 years and you have to go through this process to become successful in trading.
- In the mean time you can start doing SIP with small amount in good mutual funds. This will help you build wealth in long run for your future goals.
- Focus on your career as you are young. See how you can develop additional skills and grow in your current career. This will help you to clear the loans quickly and also create sufficient savings.
Hope the above points will be helpful for you.
1 Like
technical analysis will help trader to stay atleast at no loss situation initially,
bcz all indicators are late, i mean by the time u get buy signal and enter position, price may go up or fall
there will be times were u will get benifit, there will be also time were u will be in loss but losses can be minimum with stop losses,
coming to options, in my experience options require more experience in terms of time decay, when to hedge, when to squareoff which one will learn with experience, compared to equity it has both advantages and disadvantages… greatest advantage is hedging but in my experience u required time minimum 1-2 months better to execute option stragies with technical analysis.
conclusion is that u develope ur own strategy which should work for uptend, down trend, sideways market
it will take 1-3 years to overcome the problems and to find solutions…some time u will get money very easily and quickly but always remember that is only 1% of time.
deploy very small capital for few years get a grip and then u can start focusing in earning money
as per my experience if you trading with a pressure to earn money the chances of failure are very highy, bcz oppurtunities in trading is a RADNDOM PROCESS, there is a probability associated with every trade, for best results one should focus on there strtaegy and impliment it and trade emotion less, dont overcarry away due to profits or losses, FOCUS ON GETTING GRIP…HUMAN BRAIN HAS GIVEN GIFT TO SOLVE PROBLEMS…UNDERSTAND WHT ARE THE PROBLEMS IN UR STRATEGY TRY TO FIND SOLUTIONS IT WILL TAKE TIME BUT WITH DETERMINATION ONE MAY GET THERE…TILL THEN…TILL U CAN TRADE PEACEFULLY CONFIDENTLY WITHOUT ANXIETY BETTER STAY AWAY BE COOL FIND OTHER SOURCES OF INCOME/HELP TILL THEN
Must read story… Nobody talks about these things. The entire system of brokers and finfluencers is designed to get you trading, at your expense. 9 out of 10 lose money. And the show goes on.
Everyone knows this by now, they are prompted on every login.
I will never understand the logic of putting large money and/or taking loan to trade when you have no actual proof of edge. No patience at all. Start small, make money first, increase a bit, make more money etc - shouldn’t this make intuitive sense ? Most people will then stay in ‘start small’ stage and never increase capital beyond small amount since they will lose.
People act stupidly and then blame everyone else.