FnO and Presumptive Taxation

In case of a person adopting the provisions of section 44AD, income will not be
computed in normal manner as discussed earlier (i.e., Turnover less Expenses) but will be
computed @ 6% or 8%, as the case may be, of the turnover or gross receipt.
However, a person may voluntarily disclose his business income at more than 8% or 6%, as the
case may be, of turnover or gross receipt.

Straight from Income Tax Department document. The word presumptive means that income will be presumed as a percentage of total turnover. You can voluntarily declare a higher income, but it is not necessary.

Nowhere in the act is this mentioned. A person opting for presumptive taxation is not required to maintain books and accounts and hence has no idea about his actual profit. Declaring income above 6% is voluntary.

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Why did you delete your post ?

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The wordings of the post were not accurate. Did some research and posted a better reply

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Hmm, I am not a CA, the way I understand is you have to mention your revenue and expenses. But Claimed profits can be what you claim(not actual). And claimed can be more than deemed(or less or equal to) - and tax is paid on higher of claimed and deemed.

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In presumptive taxation you are only required to declare your turnover and the percentage of turnover you would like to declare as income. 6%/8% is the minimum that has to be declared and you have the choice to declare a higher percentage of profit too. As no expenses are allowed in presumptive scheme, you don’t have to declare any expenses.

Well. Interpretation of law can be different from different people.

If you ask me.
Can I show profits at 6 percent and file my returns?
Yes.

Will the return be process successfully?
Most of the time.

But then there are a lot of things to be considered.
Income Tax is self assessment tax. We have to assess our income and declare it.
If AO is satisfied, then it’s accepted.
If he isn’t then he will ask for more information by issuing a SCN

I won’t get into the sections in detail but will just try to put in simple words.

When we say we have 6 percent profit we are indirectly saying we have 94 percent expenses. If that’s the case then your assets during the year shouldn’t exceed more than the income you have declared. Basically your cash flows should match.

Let’s say. I sell OTM options and all of them expire worthless. In this case my turnover is 1 crore. And profit is also 1 crore. According to 6 percent I show only 6lalks as income. And then may investment of 90lalks during the year. How is this justified. The AO has to power to deem it as income.
Plus, if you are talking about business income out of FNO you are clearly maintaining books of accounts. The brokers themselves maintain for you. How can you say you don’t know your profits.
You are giving a declaration that you have declared income to the best of your knowledge. But are you ??
Since it’s a debatable topic I will leave it out for you guys to figure it out.

Just to cite a case law. It’s a mere copy paste. You can skip to conclusion directly.

Ahmedabad bench of ITAT in the case of Shivani Builders Vs. ITO [2007] 295 ITR (AT) 281. The relevant paragraphs of the order reproduced below brings out the import of the presumptive sections which we are discussing: It is, thus, clear that the law envisages all the three situations by laying down appropriate procedure for all of them, i.e., the assessee disclosing a higher, lower, or an amount equal to the presumptive income (reckoned at the rate of 8 per cent of the turnover). – In the instant case, the assessee contended to have declared its income at the presumptive rate, being covered by the provisions of section 44AD, of which, clearly, there was no doubt, it being engaged in the civil construction of residential flats. The provision of section 44AA i.e., with regard to mandatory maintenance of books of account, would apply to an assessee engaged in such business, only, if the assessee chooses to be taxed at lower than the presumptive rate of 8 per cent, which is clearly in the nature of a, and the only, concession accorded by the statute to the relevant class of assessees, to which assertion of the assessee, there could be no doubt, it being statutorily recognized/ enacted. However, where the assessee, despite the said concession, chooses to maintain the books of account, preferring to rely thereon for various other purposes, both apart from and under the Act, it cannot ignore the book results and claim to be entitled to a lower presumptive rate of income than that revealed by such books. The law does not accord a privileged status to the assessee engaged in this line of business but only, considering the vagaries that attend thereto, draws a higher bar for the purpose of maintenance of books, i.e., than that normally obtains under section 44AA. As such, it cannot be said that though the assessee, admittedly, earns more, he would still be liable to be assessed to income-tax at a lower income by virtue of the said concession. Section 44AD would not operate to curtail the scope of income as defined under section 2(24), read with section 5, so that where the assessee admittedly earns a higher income, the character of which as income is undoubted, it would be liable to tax on that basis, that is, on the basis of real income, even as held by the Commissioner (Appeals). The assessee’s plea of the said interpretation as amounting to be penalizing it for the maintenance of its books, was wholly misconceived; the act of paying tax on the basis of income earned cannot, by any stretch of imagination, be considered as amounting to being penalized; the law is not creating a privileged class out of such assessees, but thereby only is providing a window of concession for a limited purpose.

Conclusion

From above discussion, following points can be concluded

  1. An assessee filing the return of income is under an obligation to offer its correct and true income in accordance with the provisions of the Act.
  2. The presumptive scheme of taxation allows taxpayers to offer income higher than the prescribed rate. In short, it is the minimum rate u/s 44AD which has to be considered and higher income option is open for the taxpayers which have to be used if taxpayers have higher income. 3. The powers of the AO are very wide & exhaustive. AO can assess correct income on the basis of investment if they have sufficient documentary evidence which is very much possible during survey, search & assessment proceeding. AO can bring to tax the higher income in such cases
  3. Though the presumptive scheme of taxation is introduced with an aim to relieve the taxpayers form the requirements of maintaining the books of accounts, however, it doesn’t not relieve the taxpayers from justifying its investment sources. In short, it may not be taken as a permission to show lower income even if taxpayers are earning higher income.
  4. The concept of making disclosure in the ITR forms with respect to few Balance Sheet data in income tax returns seems to have been introduced with this concept only.
  5. Not offering true or correct income may even result in the application of section 69, 69A or section 69C of the Act if the investment or the expenditure is in excess of the returned income.
  6. Section 44AD does not give a license to the assessee to declare lower income despite the assessee having a higher income
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My CA recommended me to use normal Tax Slab for Intraday & FnO Profit.

He said, all your expenses are online. Even, If you sum all the expenses including personal, your profit will be more. So we can’t use presumptive tax blah blah. Last year, i thought ok. But paying tax this year really hurts.

Is there any official way to get a confirmed answer? I don’t want to get notice after XX years, and pay tax with interest.

I just answered.

Is there a official way ?
This is law. Everybody interprets in the different way. What’s right? What you think is right. And who decides AO. Funny. Isn’t it ? That’s how it works

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This is exactly what I was saying. You cannot say you didn’t know your profits. You can’t say you didn’t maintain books of accounts.

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There has been a judgement in 2020 that can be viewed as precedence perhaps. The assesse failed to disclose additional 5 lacs turnover and the officer was not accepting 8% on this undisclosed turnover. But the ruling disallowed this questioning by the officer.

Assesse Name : Sri. Girish V.Yalakkishettar Vs ITO (ITAT Bangalore)

Appeal Number : ITA No. 354/Bang/2019

Date of Judgement/Order : 27/01/2020

Related Assessment Year : 2013-14

Courts : [All ITAT]

Asking to prove 92% of expense defeats purpose of presumptive taxation: ITAT Bangalore

  1. Against, this the assessee is in appeal before us. The Ld. AR submitted that the there was a difference between the turnover declared by the assessee and the turnover declared in form 26AS at Rs.5,05,050/-. It was submitted that it is on account of inclusion of certain advances received in the turnover. He submitted that the entire amount of Rs.5,05,050/- cannot be considered as income of the assessee. At best, the income of 8% of the amount of Rs.5,05,050/- may be considered as income of the assessee since it is part of the business turnover of the assessee.

  2. On the other hand, the Ld. DR submitted that the entire amount is to be considered as the income of the assessee since the undisclosed income u/s. 44AD of the Act cannot be offered.

  3. I have heard the rival submissions and perused the record. Admittedly, there is difference in the turnover declared by the assessee and the turnover declared in Form 26AS which is at Rs.5,05,000/- and it is to be part of the business turnover of the assessee. Being so, it should be included in the total turnover of the assessee and income of 8% is to be estimated on it. In other words, the entire undisclosed turnover of Rs.5,05,050/- cannot be considered as income of the assessee. The AO is directed to consider 8% of the income of Rs.5,05,050/-. Thus, this ground of appeal of the assessee is partly allowed.

So here is a summary
1. The officer questioned because the turnover was calculated wrong. Apparently he wasn’t questioning about 8% otherwise.
2. The judgement states the assessee has to be only charged 8% even for the misreported turnover.

Single line Summary of Judgement:
Asking to prove 92% of expense defeats purpose of presumptive taxation: ITAT Bangalore

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The above case law overrules 44AD as the assessee maintained books of accounts, but chose not to refer to it for the purpose of taxation.

There is a difference between the broker maintaining our books of accounts and we maintaining our books of accounts ourselves. Having a record of online transactions does not mean we have maintained our books of accounts, as books have to be maintained as per section 44AA.

I think this point was raised in an earlier reply also, but the presumptive taxation scheme clearly states that it is voluntary on the part of the assessee to declare an income that is more than 6%. The whole aim of presumptive taxation is too do away with all kinds of hassles regarding tax filing, and that is why there is a ceiling limit of INR 1 crore.

There is a difference between having an online record of expenses and maintaining books of accounts. Furthermore, the law itself has given us the option to opt and pay for tax at 6%, so even if our actual profit comes out to be higher, we can still declare 6% under 44AD.

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This is slightly different. It’s a case of turnover being calculated differently.

@Trishula_Capital With all due respects I do not agree to anything that you have said. And I do not want to simply argue over here because it will go nowhere. Somebody tagged me here and I just wanted to give my take on it.
If you receive notice you can appeal against it and as well win.

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If assessing officers start issuing SCNs to every one who opts for 44AD and ask them to prove their expenses, then that defeats the whole purpose of the law. Furthermore, persons opting for 44AD are not required to maintain books of accounts so I don’t think the AO can ask for any books.

No harm in disagreeing. Its just that i have handled a few cases of presumptive taxation during my articleship, so i know a little bit about this.

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You are not getting my point. He can question your investments and savings. You really have no idea about the powers of an AO. Trust me you don’t. How many appeals have you appeared before an AO? It’s not as easy as somebody write it on the internet. Practically it’s a lot different.

I have an idea about the powers of an AO. He can question the savings and investments and the return filed u/s 44AD shall be sufficient as proof.
But i think this debate is headed nowhere so I think I’ll stop here.

And I have handled cases where investments are questioned. And now investments appear in AIS.

You have declared 6lakhs profit. Paid tax if of let’s say 10k and Made investments of 90lalks. How does it work. Am not even talking about 44AD

Looks and smells like black money.

Aren’t you contradicting yourself. The return is the proof ? Really? Where you declared at 6lakhs? And investment is 90lalks? Will this stand in front of commissioner appeals. ?? Are you ready to challenge it in ITAT ?