How to scale up delta neutral

I’ve been trading for approx 3 years now. I’ve tried multiple strategies but delta-neutral fits my psycology the most.

Currently trade with 2 to 3 lots, and I am able to make 12%+ return.

Any tips to scale this up. Any way to get in touch with like minded traders, trading the similar strategy?

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There was a recent thread adjacent to this topic. :backhand_index_pointing_down:

AFAIK @Jason_Castelino & I trade delta neutral, though Jason’s is very dynamic. :backhand_index_pointing_down:

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One other thing that came to mind :thought_balloon:
Ideally the pledged securities should not be correlated to the product we’re trading. :white_exclamation_mark::heavy_equals_sign:

When trading Nifty - consider 50% liquid debt as cash component and 50% gold as non-cash component. :scroll::coin:
Look at Covid era meltdown in NIFTYBEES v. the inversely correlated strong performance of GOLDBEES. :melting_face:

When Nifty sells off and vol spikes, short premium trades will take some losses but we should not be forced to sell off pledged equities. Or if selling only debt portion, not being able to scale into that vol spike due to lack of cash component. :money_with_wings:

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Nice threads. Thanks for letting me know.
How do you come across such strategies? Do you eventually discover after spending time in the market, or some forum where these are discussed?

This is very practical. Often while scaling up this is overlooked. Thanks for sharing.

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Strats can be learned from books or free courses but only the right strategy with the right underlying produces profits. That can be learned only by actively trading the market with small size and slowly scaling up. :chart_increasing_with_yen:

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I was wondering ,How easier would life be if exchanges allowed traders to take cash settled position having fixed maximum loss , required margin equal to that maximum loss, and a lock in mechanism so the position could not be exited before expiry :sweat_smile: .

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I think you described buying cash settled index options. :face_holding_back_tears:

No , For any combination of options/future. For example in bull spread max loss is fix , but the require margin is far more than max loss.

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This requires the exchanges to support complex order book (COB) for multi-leg strategies. :bookmark_tabs:
Hopefully sometime soon! :hourglass_not_done:

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@pavinjoseph @Jason_Castelino @siva is there a way to understand the margin expansion when faced with correction, VIX spike to correctly arrive at max lots to sell?

Sensibull seems to have sliders to check for P&L impact with market movement, VIX spike and day progression. What it does not show is the change of margin with change of volatility.

i’ve had to face cash balance going into negative with market correction (too much positions with +ve delta, and underlying also corelated).

Kindly share your approach.

I never bothered to find out. I always keep around 20 percent of funds in liquidcase or liquidbees. These are pledged and used for trading. But when my cash balance goes negative, I sell them directly. My overall margin will not go negative since I don’t use more than 60 percent of margin on most days. Only on expiry day I use max margin available.

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When volatility goes up :up_arrow: - margin required by exchanges for new :new_button: short premium trades (especially OTM strangles at say 16-21 delta) go down. :down_arrow:
But your existing short vol positions will require additional margin to account for vega losses. :up_arrow:

This is why overall margin use discipline during calm markets is critical, so you can scale into any vol spikes and make your losses plus some profits back. :backhand_index_pointing_down:

Model the potential DD from Sensibull by selling ATM straddle with number of lots equivalent to 25% of your overall portfolio margin (based on current VIX conditions) and cranking up the IV to 80 (peak of Covid-era VIX). :chart_decreasing:

Expect at least 20-30% reduction in margin required per lot (for new trades, not existing ones that are underwater :ocean:) under these juicy premium conditions. :drooling_face:
So not only will you be scaling into any VIX spike, you will be trading more lots (per unit of ₹) to rake in that vol crush. :smiling_cat_with_heart_eyes:

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Thank you @Jason_Castelino @pavinjoseph for the insights—makes sense.

In retrospect, my drawdowns were mainly due to position sizing. I’m now hopefully able to “trade small” per Tasty mechanics.

How do you manage your actual cash balance (excluding liquid collateral)? Do you use a certain % of capital or a fixed threshold, say ₹2L max?

40 percent equity.

40 percent debt funds.

18 percent liquidbees and liquidcase.

2 percent cash.

Obviously it keeps changing as market moves. Small adjustments are there once in a while. When I have to sell liquidbees to meet cash balance I usually sell for 5 to 6lakhs. Again when the balance goes above 10lakhs I buy liquidbees again.

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If delta-neutral is working consistently for you, I’d scale gradually rather than increasing position size quickly. Keep the same setup and risk rules, and increase lots step by step while tracking drawdowns and performance. For connecting with similar traders, you can look at options and delta-neutral trading communities on TradingQ&A, Reddit, or Discord and compare how others manage adjustments and risk.

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There are no G-Secs in your portfolio. Is there a specific reason for this?

They are not tax efficient. I don’t wanna pay 30 percent tax on the interest amount.

I do have gilt funds. No tax is payable on capital appreciation since I will never sell them. Small expense ratio is fine.