I think this amendment was really good. This modification effectively eliminates the peak margin collection requirement for derivative trades based on four daily snapshots to ‘beginning of the day’ pricing. With the new margin rule, traders can now utilise only 50% of their margin against securities, with the remaining 50% available in cash (bank) with the broker to commence trade.
Could you please brief like in which contract and at what time you observed the discrepancy?
The individual strike prices did get updated initially as usual (around 2:17 pm), but weirdly after around 20 minutes, they started showing the same margin required as before. And they never reverted to the ‘updated version’ before the end of day.
Also, the total margin available only got updated around 3:15 or so…
Yesterday we didn’t load the intraday SPAN file on RMS but got loaded in order window calcy + Basket as these are auto-scheduled and we have revert to BOD SPAN immediately like before 2:23pm so you might have observed the difference between 2:15 to 2:24PM.
This is loaded at around 3:45PM on both RMS as well as order window calcy as usual.
P.S. Please note, uploading intraday SPAN is at the discretion of our RMS and depend on volatility. It advisable to maintain the sufficient funds to avoid any margin shortfall and the risk of position square off.
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But why was it reverted back? If it was a one-time thing, it’s fine, but there should be at least one intraday updation, else how are we supposed to take overnight positions? You guys decide the time, 2 pm, 2:30 pm, 3 pm, whatever, but please stick to it. IMO, the current 2 pm system works fine.
Sorry but how does this make sense? You’re effectively saying that positions can be squared off even if there’s no intraday margin updation. In any case, you guys are blocking 4% extra…
If there’s no intraday updation and account goes negative after EOD file updation, then it’s your loss only. All the more reason that there should be intraday margin updation.
The pre-schedule uploaded 2PM SPAN to order window margin calcy and that is been reverted since no intraday SPAN is loaded to RMS, otherwise there would be mismatch between these two.
There won’t be increase/decrease in margin if no intraday SPAN is loaded in to the system but one can still keep a buffer funds/collateral to tackle possible increase in margin at EOD or for MTM purpose.
Agreed, there might be sudden increase in margin at EOD and if client don’t fund, broker end up bearing the penalty. Similarly, post upload of intraday SPAN and margin reduces for existing as well as for fresh position (Ex: For PE short in case of market up), whereas member has to collect BOD SPAN to meet upfront margin criteria.
As soon as you sell your stock holdings, you can utilise 80% of the proceeds to open new positions in other stocks or F&O bets. The maximum intraday leverage has been limited under the new peak margin regulation, and only 80% of the credit from selling your holdings will be available for further trades. Starting on day T+1, the complete credit will be accessible.
@Nithin, there was again no intraday margin updation today. How are positional traders supposed to take position if you’re not updating the margin at least once? Why change something which was working fine? Time & again, something keeps happening…
Since overnight traders don’t affect your company’s profit margin as much as intraday players, so maybe you have stopped bothering about them, but this is not right, and a bit frustrating really…
Hmm… how does this make sense? The risk is the highest when positions are held overnight. So as a business w have the incentive to keep the margins updated to whatever the latest margins are.
As explained above many times, the issue today is that if the margin goes down during the day and we block margins as per the latest margins, the penalty is on the beginning of the day margin. This new rule is what has forced us to make changes; we would have loved to make no change on this otherwise.
If the market volatility has picked up and margins go up, we for sure will update the margins at around 2 pm. At any cost, the margin required will be updated post-market closing when the last SPAN files are released by the exchange. So you get sufficient time to transfer funds for any short margin positions for the next day.
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The problem isn’t if the margin required goes negative post-market, but with the inability to utilise the margin in an optimum manner near EOD. If I want to utilise my full margin, I am unable to do so.
But this thing of margin not getting updated even once is a very recent one. This new rule came in August, and in August & September, there weren’t any issues with this specific thing. But it has happened the past two expiries.
Also, there have been many other margin issues post-August. Sometimes the total margin gets updated but not the individual margin, sometimes it gets updated very late, sometimes on time, and now, not even once, etc.
I meant that overnight traders probably generate less brokerage than intraday players since not all traders prefer taking overnight positions, and even if they do, it’s a small percentage of their margin. If more (overnight) traders raised this issue, then you might be forced to update the margin intraday.
Unless I misunderstood something, this is the first time. Once the reason given was that no intraday SPAN was uploaded to RMS, the other that there was an issue with fetching SPAN from exchange FTP to order window margin.
With Zerodha being the industry leader, the bar is always high. But the experience the past few months has been far from ideal, and not everything can be blamed on the regulation changes…
Even though the Vix went down & at 2 pm, the Nifty was at roughly the same position as yesterday’s close, there was a margin change today. This probably means that not updating the margin the past two expiries was a conscious decision, and had nothing to do with risk management, volatility or some other generic reason.
@Ananth, today again there was this issue of individual strike prices not getting updated. When the total margin change happened, my account went into negative. I quickly squared some positions, but it took more than one try to get it into positive as the margin being displayed was incorrect. Also, couldn’t take positions for tomorrow’s finnifty expiry.
Please fix this for tomorrow.
This is pretty much what I was getting at in the previous comment. The past month or so, there have been multiple things which have been a issue, not just one…
There was delay in SPAN availability so our pre-schedule tried couple of time and got failed. The same case of Today but we have loaded manually around 2:50pm on Order window + Basket calcy.
Yeah, no change initially today as well, but it did get updated later on…
@Ananth, Same thing happened today as well. The individual strike price got updated as usual, but they went back to pre-updated value soon after, then the total account margin change also happened sometime later at the usual time.
So right now, strike prices are showing pre-updation value, but total account margin is showing updated value. Please fix this.
Hi @SachinSingh We just ran process which overwrite to BOD Span and then loaded the 2PM Span again, it should be fine now.
@Ananth, there has been no margin update today, for the individual strike prices or the total account margin.
Please update it manually.
Edit: Updated now.
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@Ananth, same thing today as well. No individual margin change, but overall change happened as usual. Please fix this.
Kindly check from tomorrow, there won’t be any change in span margin till market close as exchange will consider beginning of the day span factor for end of the day position from May 02.
We won’t upload the intraday span going forward.(subject to change based on RMS discretion)
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