@Nithin, there was again no intraday margin updation today. How are positional traders supposed to take position if you’re not updating the margin at least once? Why change something which was working fine? Time & again, something keeps happening…
Since overnight traders don’t affect your company’s profit margin as much as intraday players, so maybe you have stopped bothering about them, but this is not right, and a bit frustrating really…
Hmm… how does this make sense? The risk is the highest when positions are held overnight. So as a business w have the incentive to keep the margins updated to whatever the latest margins are.
As explained above many times, the issue today is that if the margin goes down during the day and we block margins as per the latest margins, the penalty is on the beginning of the day margin. This new rule is what has forced us to make changes; we would have loved to make no change on this otherwise.
If the market volatility has picked up and margins go up, we for sure will update the margins at around 2 pm. At any cost, the margin required will be updated post-market closing when the last SPAN files are released by the exchange. So you get sufficient time to transfer funds for any short margin positions for the next day.
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The problem isn’t if the margin required goes negative post-market, but with the inability to utilise the margin in an optimum manner near EOD. If I want to utilise my full margin, I am unable to do so.
But this thing of margin not getting updated even once is a very recent one. This new rule came in August, and in August & September, there weren’t any issues with this specific thing. But it has happened the past two expiries.
Also, there have been many other margin issues post-August. Sometimes the total margin gets updated but not the individual margin, sometimes it gets updated very late, sometimes on time, and now, not even once, etc.
I meant that overnight traders probably generate less brokerage than intraday players since not all traders prefer taking overnight positions, and even if they do, it’s a small percentage of their margin. If more (overnight) traders raised this issue, then you might be forced to update the margin intraday.
Unless I misunderstood something, this is the first time. Once the reason given was that no intraday SPAN was uploaded to RMS, the other that there was an issue with fetching SPAN from exchange FTP to order window margin.
With Zerodha being the industry leader, the bar is always high. But the experience the past few months has been far from ideal, and not everything can be blamed on the regulation changes…
Even though the Vix went down & at 2 pm, the Nifty was at roughly the same position as yesterday’s close, there was a margin change today. This probably means that not updating the margin the past two expiries was a conscious decision, and had nothing to do with risk management, volatility or some other generic reason.
@Ananth, today again there was this issue of individual strike prices not getting updated. When the total margin change happened, my account went into negative. I quickly squared some positions, but it took more than one try to get it into positive as the margin being displayed was incorrect. Also, couldn’t take positions for tomorrow’s finnifty expiry.
Please fix this for tomorrow.
This is pretty much what I was getting at in the previous comment. The past month or so, there have been multiple things which have been a issue, not just one…
There was delay in SPAN availability so our pre-schedule tried couple of time and got failed. The same case of Today but we have loaded manually around 2:50pm on Order window + Basket calcy.
Yeah, no change initially today as well, but it did get updated later on…
@Ananth, Same thing happened today as well. The individual strike price got updated as usual, but they went back to pre-updated value soon after, then the total account margin change also happened sometime later at the usual time.
So right now, strike prices are showing pre-updation value, but total account margin is showing updated value. Please fix this.
Hi @SachinSingh We just ran process which overwrite to BOD Span and then loaded the 2PM Span again, it should be fine now.
@Ananth, there has been no margin update today, for the individual strike prices or the total account margin.
Please update it manually.
Edit: Updated now.
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@Ananth, same thing today as well. No individual margin change, but overall change happened as usual. Please fix this.
Kindly check from tomorrow, there won’t be any change in span margin till market close as exchange will consider beginning of the day span factor for end of the day position from May 02.
We won’t upload the intraday span going forward.(subject to change based on RMS discretion)
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Please reconsider this, else it’ll become very difficult for overnight/positional traders to properly take their position. Doesn’t even have to be the usual 2 pm update, can even be around 3 pm or so, but at least one margin update should be there…
CC: @Nithin
We will update the SPAN after markets close. If any margins go up, then customers can add more funds in the evening. With the new rule, if we update SPAN even at, say 3 PM, and assuming the SPAN has gone down, there will be a margin penalty that we will have to bear on all customers taking new positions post 3 PM with lower margins.
Btw, let me figure out if we can allow an easy way to export positions to our margin calculator, which can be updated with the latest SPAN. For those customers who want to see the latest margins as per the latest SPAN.
@Nithin, just for my understanding, under the new guidelines, if I take positions after 3 pm and after the post market update (5:30 pm), the account (or the EOD margin in the Margin Statement) goes negative, that would still be considered as a case of upfront penalty and not passed to the client right? Not talking about hedged positions here, just naked Index Options.
And like earlier, I assume Peak Margin penalty is still also being borne by the broker?
All margin penalty for the trading day is based on the beginning-of-day margins. So there is no penalty even if the platform shows a higher margin at 5.30 pm. Any margin increase must be brought by the next trading day, failing which there will be a margin penalty. This isn’t an upfront margin penalty; this is a customer failing to bring in additional margins the next day, so the penalty is passed to the customer.
Yep, at Zerodha, all upfront margin penalty is borne by us. I don’t think every broker is following this rule.
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Okay. I asked because in yesterday’s Margin Statement, my EOD margin is being shown as negative. But EOD yesterday, account was positive, and it was positive at today’s open as well.
You had once mentioned that Non-Upfront margin can be found out by either CCO, Adhoc or Delivery margin, and CCO/Delivery is shown zero in my Statement, and there’s no mention of Adhoc. So, I feel this is a case of Upfront.
I’ve a pretty good record of keeping positive EOD margin all these years at Zerodha, so don’t understand this. And even if it went negative, it shouldn’t have been by too much, but it shows -5L. Plus, there was this issue of margins not being uploaded properly yesterday (individual strike prices didn’t change after the 2 pm update but overall margin did). Have created a ticket: #20230503897343
Sure sir will check and reply on the ticket.
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20230802340516 do you please look into it