And see them collapse like Zeel, RBLBANK, RCOM, YesBank, Suzlon, Unitech, DLF, Indiabulls, PNB patiently like a saint.
I was expecting this. Rather controlling retails, SEBI should focus on curbing speculation by institutions via algos.
And reducing the participations of retail will be foolish.
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YeahâŚas if the market is your personal property.
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Good and valid point. This is the main reason why most directional traders lose money 90% times only because of those underground demons of the market. I am surprised to the SEBI why donât they look at those monsters of the market who 90% times operate with their power of money to crush innocent retailers not only in stocks but also in options. Instead these days SEBI is busy only in curbing retailers kicking out of the market completely. SEBI must try to educate before punching rather than ban completely.
Hold Hold Karte Karte, Hope Hope Karte Rahna⌠
Btw just know that around 97-99% of trading volume in the exchange is derivative trading and intraday equity speculation. Out of that around 85% is derivatives alone. Ever wondered why that is the case ?
I just donât think this would ever happen. Even SEBI wonât really do this. Itâs not technically a zero sum game. Only losers here are the ones that go short.
better than losing savings in a single day on a single option trade.
Retail also has no business in single stock as well. just stick to Nifty 50 ETF.
average retail investor dont have neither time nor resources to detect manipulation done in books.
just stick to Nifty 50 ETF or Nifty Next 50 ETF. any other stock or instrument is dangerous and not good for your financial health.
Bruh Bruh Bruh
Its not.
i am just sharing my thoughts after seeing so much BS in terms of trainings/trading gurus peddling bunch of bullshit to innocent retail traders.
In this forum alone i saw posts where people blow up their entire life savings of laks of rupees by following some BS TA or following some trainings and immediately pushed their families into BPL.
Lot of people come to market for quick gains.
and we all know that will never happen.
Zerodha released stats that 99% of traders lose money.
So why shouldnât SEBI ban all those people in their own interests ?
The success rate of startups is also similar. So is shutting down all startups the solution ?
Lot of children play cricket with the dream of making it in to the national team. Since majority fail should we ban children from playing cricket ?
If we see any field the story is the same. Banning entry to people looking at someoneâs failure is denying the chance for some one else who may excel in it.
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Your argument actually proves my point.
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startup failure rate: if a startup fails, the impact is on angel investors (who are already rich), them losing money is not a big deal, because they are already rich. Startup employees will lose their options, but they gain in experience and they are paid salaries anyway. This is exactly what SEBI is doing. allow rich folks to play with their money in futures & options, stop middle class retailers to blow their money on âget-rich-quickâ schemes.
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Children playing cricket: This is not a valid example. because children play cricket, while stduying. so if their cricketing career does not take off by certain age, they have their education as backup option. In stock market, if people lose money, there is no back up option, the money is lost.
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I am advocating ban only in deirvatives because the cost of failure on the trader & his/her family is enoromous and irreversible. chances of getting cheated in trading is high (fake courses, stock price manipulation on expiry day). such things dont exist in other fields, so your comparsion is either naive or dishonest to begin with.
I rest my case.
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Except job, every other field have a high failure rate that doesnât mean that one should not strive to achieve them. Its better education what is needed not bans.
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Draconian views as usual.
Some kind of speed breaker for new people makes a lot of sense, they must understand risk. People take 4 years to get a degree but expect to make a killing instantly in the market. So they are as much to blame as are the people targeting them ( who obviously must be caught, but where is SEBI? I regularly get âsure shotâ spam. ). Same thing happens in penny stocks, pump and dump stocks etc etc. You can over leverage in real estate too. Even seemingly well researched fundamental input from established sources will lead to failure if someone bets all in a single stock.
Perhaps some kind of behavioral research on why people act stupidly in the markets could be done.
Futures anyway no longer have very high leverage, so only options have a chance to attract the gambler instinct in some people. But not all of us are like this. Maybe 90% donât make meaningful returns, that does not mean they all lose their life savings. A fraction of the people might, just as some might do well.
You state stock price manipulation with great authority, what proof do you have ? I am trading with 1000s of trades with a positive edge and i donât do anything different on expiry days. People compete and that impacts price.
Good places exist to learn as well. Problem is people do not take the effort and then blame everyone else after taking too much risk without proof of edge. They donât understand the probabilistic nature of market and fall prey to their lack of emotional control. Cannot conquer their monkey brain. Why cant these people start with small risk and check before leaping ? If you want to save someone from falling off a bridge you donât destroy the bridge - problem is elsewhere.
I agree that my views are draconian.
By they are the need of the hour, because my views are backed by data.
No other field has so many liars (trainers), cheaters (tips).
Go and join the telegram group that is run by tradetron.
Every day 10-15 retailers complain that they were misled and lost money by the algo creators.
if 90% of participants are not investing effort and time, not learning risk management, are losing money, dont you think it should be regulated and babysitted ?
SEBI need to outright ban people who does not earn 25lpa
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So you are saying a person earning 25lpa can not blow up their account ??
Perhaps that is failure of our education system.
I do agree that some initial brakes are needed. What those should be should be derived from some sort of research but complete ban on retail is very discriminatory.
For ex, a new person must be discouraged from buying 100s of lots of low priced options playing with full capital - or atleast he must be made aware that this is lottery and you will lose money.
Just as well people should understand that we donât get exponential returns from market without risk of ruin. Markets are competitive - look before you leap.
I also get a lot of spam from sure short tips providers - i can ignore them and so can others. So problem is in lack of emotional control in response to someone waving a banana at the monkey brain.
And nothing stops SEBI from going after bad actors. Where is the fear in these people ? Are they politically connected ?
Not really the solution. Income does not mean he knows anything, if at all he is more likely to be over confident and fall flat on his face.
Not everyone makes a salary. I am full time trader - for people like me, year to year returns vary. I can easily get a year with no return followed by a year with high return. So i may have the capital but not yearly income. So i should be banned ?
And a person with lower income must have recourse to make more money too.
What people need is to have some emotional control and some common sense and basic understanding of the market.
Anyway, our opinions here donât really matter to SEBI. SEBI chairman has changed, and so far we have had a reasonable change in futures peak margin nonsense. Lets hope that the trend continues here as well and we get something reasonable that helps most of the people from jumping off the cliff due to their stupidity.
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Promoters also put in money in startups. If it fails they also loose a sum. Promoters are not always rich to absorb the losses. Besides 50% of GDP and 90% of employment in this country is from the unorganised sector. This is achieved because there are no net worth certificates, educational qualification requirements and other blah blah to restrain human spirit of invention / innovation. There wouldnât have been a Reliance if someone asked Dhirubhai Ambani to produce a educational degree certificate or show a net worth certificate. Also the minimum capital to start a pvt ltd company in this country is just Rs.1 Lakh. So putting Rs.25 lakhs as a net worth requirement for trader is just killing his drive to excel in the market.
Not everyone who trade the market trade it for a living. There are lot of people who do this is as a side business including yours truly. So if trading doesnât workout there is a fallback. But just because there are failures putting barriers in market entry for general public is impeading their chance to try and succeed in the market.
Majority of the derivative trading in the country is just highly liquid Nifty and Bank nifty options. Very difficult to manipulate. You are more likely to be played in the equity market where there is always someone who knows more than the general public and where liquidity is scarce in a huge number of listed stocks. Your yourself have brought it out correctly when you said âstock manipulationâ.
There are fake doctors, engineers, teachers, MD and CEO of public sector companies etc etc. Its not limited to the stock market.
If we want to make Rs.50 gain for every one point move in the Nifty index, derivatives played the right way offers way less risk than going by the equity route. Derivative trading is no different from running a business and all the capital adequacy, risk management measures that a business needs is needed in trading. If some one gambles away his savings on lottery, casino, business, stock market etc etc and put his family in trouble no use of blaming someone else. The accountability and responsibility all lies with the individual.
Regulator should strive to ensure equality of opportunity and fairness in the market. It shouldnât be the parent who doesnât allow the child to express himself.
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Well there should be a free-market. Anybody can do anything. There should be account limitations though.
US follows PDT rule there should be a similar rule in India, say keep minimum 3-5L in account to trade stocks.
Minimum 8-10L to trade derivatives.
Outright banning is pure shit.