heard that sebi has relaxed the same till aug 31st
No, it means one don’t need var+elm to sell shares which are already in their demat.
No, it won’t but if any profits are realized during the day those should not be used to take new trades as those will be realized only on T+1.
Will be.
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Maybe today or tomorrow we can confirm.
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समज मे नहीं आ रहा सच मे सेबी और exchange रिटेल इन्व्हेस्टर के हित मे decision ले रहे है या फिर कुछ और
@siva-reddy @nithin i have a curious scenario in mind.
Lets say i have 100 shares of hdfc bank that i sell at 1200 from demat. My trading account has zero balance
By afternoon hdfc bank comes to 1100 price. Now i put 110000 cash in trading account and buy 100 hdfc bank shares at 1100 price.
Now our great exchange will still debit shares from demat like t2t and handle my purchased shares as fresh buy? Because if u consider this as a simple intraday transaction i as a client did not maintain any peak margin
Morning at 9 15 am hdfc bank was at 1200 when i sold from my demat. My trade account had zero balance. Only at 3 pm i brought in extra cash and bought back all my 100 shares . This resulted in intraday profit. But i failed to maintain peak margin. Will i be penalized?
Yeah, this is an issue. There will be margin penalty on this. But hopefully there will be clarification on this.
@nithin this is stupid on part of sebi
Cannot broker treat cash sell and cash buy as separate legs and charge full STT? Proof is cdsl holding as on sell time of 9:15 am. And they can deduct cdsl charges as well.
Or if i buy back from bse it will do the above workaround
Curiously in current day how do u handle this case in T2T scrip? ( ie sell and buy back exact quantity of demat shares but in t2t scrip?) . Will there be cdsl charge deduction?
I dont know how can sebi think so pathetically
In tamil we call such kings as konangi raja. That type of king will produce strange orders time to time.
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@smallcase @Gowri-from-smallcase @nithin
How will this impact SMALLCASE rebalances?
So if I own any smallcases (pre-built or DIY) - for every rebalance I need to have extra cash in my account?
Right now it is very convenient - where it shows the difference (+ve / -ve) amount - making it easy to calculate how much to add in account for successful rebalance order.
Also - in this case KITE and SMALLCASE order windows need to be updated with the margin requirement for such CNC trades / rebalance orders - just to make it easier - rather than manual calculation for user.
Konangi raja … indeed…
I am waiting for @nithin to realise the absurdity about the proceeds from long option position he mentioned. Absurd because it neither alignes with margin style adjustment nor outright dealing.
There are more issues with peak margin reporting. Apart from the corner cases already discussed … this is a serious risk to privacy. This peak margin usage is anyway going be processed with total margin put by the client. Both clinet ID and PAN will be there for reporting. One cannot ask anything more for profiling.
@nithin, what do you think about this? Scattered details Vs Serving on a platter?
People by tomorrow EOD or day after we should get more clarity, still there are rumors that SEBI may do some changes or extend timeline for few things, so wait for few more hours to get more clarity on this.
@nithin more so reason to implement Zerodha IDFC 3-in-1 account as a 3-in-1 account in a real sense like HDFC Securities and ICICI direct act where the fund transfer between IDFC bank account and Zerodha trading account happens seamlessly. Hope you understand this need.
Din’t get it? with this new rule bank brokers also need to wait to do any payout after selling shares for 2 days.
Can you please correct my understanding?
- Zerodha debits money upfront before we cash trade. Hence buying delivery stocks will not have any implications.
- To sell intra-day we have put margin again ? When will this margin get released, same day ledger by evening?
- For BTST/BNST even to sell we need to put margin. But Zerodha by using T+1 payin (money paid up front) this won’t be an issue. Basically we can sell BTST as it is now.
- Ledger money can not be traded now unless settled in T+2. In nut shell we now have to refer ‘available money for withdrawal’ in console.
This is not that bad as it looks…increasing margin and reducing leverage actually reinforces a robust risk management. Instant gratification leads to an assumption money should be made in quick succession.
The ledger funded trading will ensure one can take higher risk as the equity curve rises. However what’s not clear to me is: a. blocking revolving money (sell/buy against T or T+1 here there is no credit even, its first money deposited with brokerage house and then rotating with adjustments to unearlised gains and losses only). b. VAR+ELM on other than 1500 stocks, it shouldn’t be treated differently for a discount broker. Essentially logic remains same i.e. full money deposited in advance.
That also reminds me, is Zerodha inclined to move now to margin funding? With asking money at multiple stages i.e. say for non-1500 stocks if has to deposit 150% plus of position size to do a BTST, margin is a better way…at least with half or even less money one can trade BTST. This may push people to look at full service brokerage again. Funny, cabal of Dalal street never dies!
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Today new SEBI circlar
@siva-reddy i think full fledged broker service firms manages to create cash limit when i sell stock on t day. Later they allow me to buy another stocks same day with that cash limit and they will pay to exchange on same t day .
later on t+2 once the sales proceeds received from exchange they will first credit that and later debit the required buy value pending due from me
I illustrated this in separate thread yesterday. So idirect will not have any impact
Exchange needs buy money on t day. If idirect pays it and later collect it back from client on t+2 they are not bothered
As per my understanding
Minimim 20% advance margin or VaR + ELM required 
And penalty from 1st Sep 2020.