Risk - Strategize Your Trades

Hi All,

I am Abhijeet and I have a very unique experience. Assuming 99% of the people here are retail traders/investors, I have seen the world from the opposite side of the trades you take - i.e. from the institutional desk.

I have worked with top investment banking firms like JPMorgan and Morgan Stanley for an app that allowed any trader sitting anywhere in the world to trade on any stock exchange across the globe. Part of my job was to sit with 100s of top traders across the globe and understand their strategies/quant/algo/psychology and technically architect it through 1000s of hurdles from regulatory to code to algo to latency to dark pools to risk to smart routing to order management to profitability. A start to end FIX flow.

So this is how a typical trade looks like -

Little David (Retail Investor) - PCJEWELLER has dropped from 600 to 150. Every news channel and top moneycontrol boarders are screaming that it is a Satyam repeat and will be available pretty soon in single digits. Let me buy a PUT of strike price 100 and 150.

Big Goliath (Institutional Investor) - The total premium for strike price 150 CE and 150 PE is Rs. 60. That will cover a 40% move in either direction. There is a strong support around Rs. 100 looking at the trend lines and RSI has never been above 90 or below 10. There is a less than 1% probability historically that it will go below Rs. 94 at which point RSI 10 is a breach. Management is consistent and stressing on nothing wrong. The delivery qty of PCJEWELLER is at all time high. The volatility is all time high and book value is around 70. It should atleast give a bounce from 1.5 of book value - 105. I would like to deploy the Warren Buffet Cash secured put strategy involving writing on 150 PE/100PE + (150 CE to set off any panic selling to be sold if it goes to 100) for at 100 I would like to buy truck loads of it in equity and later pledge it for collateral margin. This looks pretty clean no risk strategy for expiry.

The rest is history. This is not to make anyone feel bad. But trust me! This is what we are up against. An average person doesn’t stand a chance against maths that always adds up - unless you invest in developing the same skills. Even if you are right - it will be once in a blue moon.

Are they smarter than us? Definitely not. Are they more educated than us? Definitely not. In fact most of them I met were major in Arts and many only 4th class pass. But they have got two things - 1) access to risk management tools that help them see through the clutter and noise and plan things accordingly. 2) temperament for trading. And that, my friends is the only difference. Not profit / Not leverage / Not greed / Not fear … but risk temperament is at the centre of all their ingrained thought process.

With that in mind, I wish to introduce Risk - Strategize Your Trades - Enabling Retail Investors With Institutional Risk Management Tools. This is just the first step. It won’t be easy. It will require you to traverse a huge learning curve for developing the risk temperament. Though your tool is right here. Broadly speaking - For existing trades, it helps you identify, monitor and control risk. For new trades, it helps you plan and strategize your trades.

Let this be the Sling (Your Risk Management Tool) - if you get the David and Goliath story context. If there is a risk out there that you can quantify, I am willing to add a module here and I genuinely wish to help you see through the risk analysis of every trade you make. The best part is when you manage your risk, there is no panic and you pull money like a magnet pulls iron.

I will add new features of Risk in this chain every now and then … Hope you enjoy it. Do share your thoughts … and I am happy to answer any questions.

Cheers,
Risk.Money

16 Likes

Is this a Zerodha initiative?

Even I wanted to ask the same. The app is asking for Zerodha login details. Is this app safe from security point of view @Risk.Money @nithin @Bhuvan

is this product only for options segment or even for equity?

Yup … its totally safe. We do not collect any data … All API communication is over HTTPS. Basically, Risk connects to Kite - Zerodha’s trading platform. And before you place a trade invariably it does a Risk Analysis to show what you are getting into. A typical use case looks like the following -

You can surely use it for equity. You will find use cases in Concentration Risk, Inflation Risk, Risk Holdings, Cover All Holdings, One Click Square Off Holdings, Pair Trading, Basket Order, Single Order, etc.

Sneak peek into Concentration Risk herein. And with basket order, you can do thorough analysis of exact entry point overnight and form 10s and 100s of orders in a basket. When the market opens … with a click of a button … you can execute all trades.

*Teaser - Portfolio Hedge on Beta Risk … Coming soon …

This app makes use of Kite APIs.

3 Likes

@Risk.Money : I have installed the app and it looks too good.
One feature that I would request is can you add option to convert single order to multiple order when the quantity breaches freeze qty.

e.g : For Banknifty, the freeze qty is 2440, suppose I place a order directly for 4800, it would be rejected.
I would request you to internally convert this order to multiple order
order 1: 2400:
Order 2: 2400 and soon if the qty is still not completed.

Please let me know if this can be implemented.
Also we are unable to place advance orders BO CO and AMO order from Risk app is this a limitation??

1 Like

:slight_smile: Glad you like it.

I read it thrice but I am not sure if I completely understand it. Which is making me super curious. Are you implying about some kind of a mechanism that stops you from overtrading? Or is this about slicing of orders so that you get a better price for multiple lots. What is a freeze quantity? What is the exact advantage you are looking for by slicing the order and paying more brokerage?

BO / CO definitely by next week … I wanted to implement it from an overall risk management perspective … thats why taking a little while.
But I think AMO is already there. Will double check the flow … its been a while.

Thanks for the prompt response!

I can explain about the order slicing further clearly.

Freeze qty is the max quantity that can be placed in single order to be a valid order. If a order with quantity more than this is placed, order would be rejected by exchange.

e.g : For BankNifty lot size is 40 and the freeze qty per order is 2500 as per NSE.
Now if I want to buy/sell 4800 or 10000 or any higher qty > freeze qty i.e in this case 2500, I have to place in multiple order to satisfy order validation at exchange.
To buy 4800 qty , I would have to place 2 orders with qty 2480 & another order with 2320.
But then placing two orders during market hours is causing some slippage due to order entry time. This can be avoided if you break it into multiple order automatically.

Hope you understood!

Link to Freeze qty for FNO:
https://www.nseindia.com/content/fo/qtyfreeze.xls

The freeze qty keeps changing once a while, so may be app can download fresh copy from above daily for internal order management.

I have again rechecked the AMO option, it is disabled.

Dude … You have just given me the first user requested institutional order type which has a perfect business sense. Thank you so much. I will definitely implement this within a week.

My only concern is having a reliable and consistent source of that qtyfreeze file. But will figure it out. I will call this order type - ICEBERG. On the lines of your freeze analogy and the fact that you have a huge order underneath … but exchange will see only the tip of the iceberg. :wink:

Brilliant! - 1 Week or tomorrow … from the looks of my excitement :slight_smile:

3 Likes

If the freeze qty source is difficult for you, instead you can make it a input parameter for user to enter.
So that this would be more generic.

Kindly check AMO option as well. As most of time I place AMO orders to catch few fishes :stuck_out_tongue: during first few minutes.

I know exactly what you mean … cruel … but its market … :slight_smile: … Do check on sth called a span file that publishes price range for futures and options. Will help you catch larger fishes with market opening or @ 3:20 PM.

No worries … Will figure this one out …

is this app not available for iOS ?

Can you explain this more clearly? Span file? where do I find it? NSE link?

Also I didn’t understand why you are calling this order as Iceberg, because, it is just going to place multiple orders at once, like a basket order. Nothing is hidden from exchange!

Ok. Its called Price Bands -

For Equity - https://www.nseindia.com/products/content/equities/equities/price_bands.htm
But there is some kind of price bands available for NSE FnO as well. I am very sure about it because if you put a LIMIT order on OPTIONs with very far span from LTP … it gets rejected by Zerodha. Maybe it is published only to brokers and is an internal reject … Not sure … Someone from Zerodha can throw more light … @Bhuvan @siva

Ok … Slicer maybe … :wink:

3 Weeks … WIP …

1 Like

DOnt you have a desktop version of this? as I use a basic phone

Well, the idea was to just float a MVP (Minimal Viable Product) and see the response. I did not realise the demand. Have already got 1000 users on Android Platform.

Will put a web based parallel app in a month or two. Thanks.

1 Like

ok. does it help an intraday trader? if yes, how?