10 Reasons why I haven't yet considered Zerodha Coin for Mutual Fund Investments

Oh, I agree totally with that. I will be happier if they could extend the window past the market close time, so we can all take a call based on what the market did each day. But the authorities have decided that that is not a good thing, and I guess we have to live with that.

My only point is that the non-AMC players can always appeal to the fact that they need time to properly process all the applications they get each day, to justify an earlier cut-off than what the AMCs offers. And I don’t see why this is unjustified: they do need time for processing. So the reasoning goes as follows:

  • The AMCs need a cut-off time so that they can process applications and declare NAVs etc. by some reasonable time before the next day.
  • The non-AMC players need a cut-off time which is somewhat before the AMC cut-off time, so that they can do the processing on their side and submit everything to the AMCs before the latter’s cut-off time.

I don’t see why this is unreasonable.

This has been taken care of by SEBI. Till 11 pm AMCs can declare daily NAV. So they have time.

This could be an internal affair between non-AMC and AMC to find a way, but for that investors should not compromise on cut-off time. This is my whole point.

A feasible solution is that sebi allows extra half on hour to intermediary to facilitate processing at their end. Different service providers can provide different time. For example ASBA. Different banks allow different time. I know People who have opened accounts just to maximize this time. Same goes for cut off time for buyback, ofs etc. Different brokers allow Different time based on their requirements for processing time. If possible, everyone will try to allow maximum time as then their service will be better than everyone. Personally I will be happier if ofs is allowed till 3.30

Agree, why always investors have to get compromises?
Why not just extend the time for brokers to provide there orders of the day?
Or why not have investors directly transact through AMC website by providing the DP id for fund nav to get credited/debited to dmat account.

I have still not invested any money through coin for simple

  1. cut off timing
  2. min amount required to invest in the fund.
  3. Have to add money to trading account for SIP to be processed.

PS: don’t see much improvements happening on UI UX on kite app as well.

Considering Zerodha has too many F&O traders who pledge margin looking for some form of regular income, I think SWP is very much missed.

Last night, on Twitter while answering someone’s question about features of Kuvera that ain’t available on Coin yet, I remembered this thread where last I had reviewed on 25/12/2020 on the progress of necessary corrections and updates of Coin.

Following up on the same, let’s see what has changed in the last 7 months:

  1. Coin cut-off timing (1:30 pm) is still not in sync with SEBI (3 pm)/ BSEStarMF (2:30 pm).
    Ticket No 20200921976293.
    Ticket Date: 21/10/2020
    Current status: Pendix Fix.

It’s been 9 months and yet pending. On a lighter note, even a human baby is conceived and born by this time. :sweat_smile:

  1. Coin doesn’t execute orders in real-time.
    This was not in the original list but the order failures on April 12, 2021 put the spotlight on this underlying issue. Coin accumulates orders and then executes them in bulk after 1:30 pm. While it should be processing in real-time.

Ticket No: 20210419962395
Ticket Date: 19/4/2021
Current status: Pending Fix.

Current status: No progress.

Current status: No progress.

Current status: Removing this from the list as it isn’t possible because of a drawback of having mutual fund in the Demat format.

Current status: No progress. I am importing my CAS to Kuvera to analyze my portfolio.

Current status: Just last week, on July 22, 2021 Coin launched a monthly newsletter. It’s too early to comment on the content and insights whether they are the same that’s available everywhere over the internet, or it has something unique to offer.

So, the summary of review findings for the 2021 half-yearly review of Coin:

  1. Only 1 task is complete i.e. the Coin Newsletter.
  2. Tasks #1 and #2 are critical to business, pending since long and need urgent attention to resolve them.
  3. Tasks #3, #4, #5, #6, #7 can be achieved with the help of Kuvera and so it is fueling the user growth of competition. Fixing them would stop the growth of competition.

2021 Mid-year score: 1/7

@nithin @siva @Bhuvan @faisr :pray:

1 Like

It clearly suggests that Coin is not the priority for Zerodha. We should move ahead.

भगवान के घर देर है अंधेर नहीं :smiley:

I would hold on, waiting for long, so can hold on. Because I want everything under one platform. So does every other investor. Once the team realizes it, they would do it. I know the team can do it, and once the issues are fixed some features would be unique and won’t be found elsewhere - Switch to any from any MF .etc.

(On a side note, if I were leading the team I would have asked the Coin dev team - this weekend we would meet at the office and lock ourselves up. Your food etc everything would be taken care of by the company. No one leaves the office premises until we knock off the issues. Either you signup for this till the end, or now only you say you can’t do it. But no one leaves mid-way, including me. Like a marathon or a war, you attack the open issues and resolve them one by one. Once the issues are resolved, the team gets couple of days off and compensation for extra hours slogged. But that’s how I work and Zerodha team doesn’t work on weekends :sweat_smile:.)

3 Likes

Just curious. Are you from software background and I have been following your other posts in niyo and jupiter community. Always raise some interesting and valid points

@sudheer_kumar Ah! Small world. You got me started now. Yes, I have done my post grad in computers. So technically and by education I am a software professional. But while doing so, I realised i am not learning anything new that I had already learnt while doing my bachelors. Understood education is a business. I still do coding rarely but only as a hobby. Or when someone throws a challenge. What is more important to me is data structures and algorithms and clarity of mind, logical thinking to instruct the computer. Once your fundamentals are clear, then you can do coding in any language. So while I was in college I got bored of the post degree course. Rather what got my interest was discussing and competiting with the IIT students on Orkut communities (I feel old now) on solving coding problems with least lines of code and least resourse used (in terms of CPU memory etc). So much so that I started skipping college for that. So interacting with online communities started from there. Thanks to my roommate in the hostel who was doing PhD and he had the access to computer lab so both of us were the night riders. I lost my interest in the typical coding, I could not see myself working in a software development company, basically communicating with a computer because the output that computer would generate is more so known. There, I got interest towards copwriting, advertising and communicating with people. Human beings are random. To communicate with people, the outcome may be random. Copywriting, advertising, marketing, the world of creativity cuts across this to find a common ground so the outcome of communication to people at large is as what expected (buying coke, buying that car etc upon seeing an ad for example). This fascinated me more than writing source code. And thus I embarked on a different journey.

4 Likes

Haha funny, just 2 days back I spoke with a college friend for the first time after 15 years of passing out and he reminded me that how all my friends there in the hostel would come to me with their programs printed on paper and I would just dry run them in my mind and tell them where the problem may occur, in which exceptional case etc. What to improvise on. Things they may have overlooked or didn’t consider at the first place. I would say God’s grace, but the only skill I have is attention to detail. I don’t have any other skill per say. :pray:

1 Like

@rupeshmandal It’s really interesting to know your background
& perspective…i’ve worked for 25 yrs in software industry…my experience helped me to build a system for investments using stocks, ETF, index funds & options. I see lot of people from software industry have got into stock markets.

1 Like

@CoolBird
I think everyone’s life is as interesting. One just needs a good storyteller. :smiley:
Also, nothing goes waste, my friend. And like Steve Jobs used to says you can connect the dots only by looking back. After passing out of college, not having a job, I remember I used to interact on a few blogs over the internet on topics around the web, advertising, marketing, startups sharing my views on how this could have been done that way .etc. And there one evening I got a call from the author of the blog, with whom I had interacted multiple times online, he asks me, I think we are like-minded people, would you like to work together. I said, ok, send me the location, and that’s how I got my first break.

Apart from the Orkut communities, where I used to compete with the IITians, to show them, I can code better (I know it was an ego drive back then), some more interesting incidents I remember. I was following an upcoming singer’s community page that time (won’t reveal her name) and randomly noticed there is some cryptic message she has written as a reply to some guy’s comment. It challenged me to crack the code. What does it mean? Tried devising an algorithm to figure how the letters have been shuffled in that message. It took me a while to crack it finally. The decoded message was - ‘parents at home’. I understood she is seeing this guy. :smiley: She is now a very famous singer and they are happily married.

Like I mentioned earlier, I got bored of coding as I didn’t want to communicate with the computer alone where the outcome is more or so known. What intrigued me was how humans behave, how advertising and marketing alter our behaviour and decision-making. How an ad seeps into your mind and makes you buy that coke when you read - ‘thanda matlab coca cola’. So I realized that advertising is about programming/coding the human behaviour. And it’s more challenging because human beings are random, unlike a computer. To find the lowest common denominator to communicate with people is a task. And we have seen it happen time and again from biggest brands increasing sales, to political campaigns like - Obama’s - ‘Yes we can’ to BJP’s campaign in 2014 general election in India - Abki Baar Modi Sarkaar. It does work. But the challenging part is - one idea works once only, so you have to constantly evolve and think better ideas, in the programming language, write a new code to communicate with human beings. :smiley:

1 Like

you really are a good story teller :grinning: that’s an art !. creative folks like u are required in media/advertising/marketing…i wonder how your thinking works with respect to investments…

@CoolBird I too had a similar notion about creativity being limited to art, culture, media, advertising etc. But later I my views changed. 5 years back when I joined the company where I am working today, the same day a new brand was launched and I saw the impact when the stock prices of the competition brands crashed and the inside news was that there was complete silence in the office floors of the competitor brand. That was my introduction to the stock market.

While working in this organization and how they manage things, money matters, financial engineering, stock, press releases, AGMs, business strategies, when a competition bullies, when something disappointing happens, when a product fails, how a crisis is managed, I learned that creativity is not restricted to only art and culture, etc. How you live your life could be creative. How you manage money could be creative, how you run a business could be creative. It’s a way of life.

Regarding investment, it’s a lifelong process. Again, taking cues from coding, minimum lines of code, minimum resource utilization (CPU cycles, memory etc, disk space), in investing too the same principles apply - low cost/ expense ratio, low churn, maximum return, lower taxability (i.e. output) of that effort (input). And constant optimizing. Earning treturns, double the inflation for a long term takes care of all your needs and you can sleep peacefully in the night. Kabira says - साँई इतना दीजिए, जामे कुटुम समाय। मैं भी भूखा ना रहूँ, साधु न भूखा जाय।। :pray:

I am still learning and navigating and this forum has helped me a lot to grow, experiment, make mistakes, fail, learn, celebrate occasional successes. Reading others, debating with them, contradicting them, getting your biases and prejudices broken, doing research, talking to people, listening to them, understanding their views, etc. I find new ways to approach things. It’s like seeking truth.

Investment also has a different dimension to me, in a spiritual way, the base, it’s all in nature. We’re just making derivatives of one thing and another. In the truest sense, we are just fooling around in this world. The best investment is in ourselves as individuals and the earth. I read somewhere recently someone tweeting that I hope all these billionaires succeed to go to space and mars etc and then find out that there is nothing out there, we only have one earth. The present needs to be nurtured and attended to. People value bitcoin because it is in a limited number in circulation. The day people realize the natural resources, water, soil fertility etc even our breaths all are also limited, they would be forced to see investments from a different lens, and not just monetary terms or XIRR returns, which is just one derivative product. Maybe then people would value life more.

Rakesh Jhunjhunwla is the biggest bull or investor in India. Right? With no offence or disrespect to him, and I apologize for what I am going to say ahead - all that he has earned is money. If you see him, you know that he has abused his physical body his entire life. Health is wealth, they say. He may have earned too much money so that his next few generations can live happily. But at what cost? What is the expense ratio on his life and health? The biggest market cap company in India, what’s its expense ratio on planet earth?

Again, nothing personal here, but the point I want to make is when you see wholistically, things may not be the same as they look at the outer. Electric vehicles, people going crazy about it, what is generating the electricity that is charging the batteries? Coal. Taking from nature again or rather abusing it. Bull run, bearish market, what do they say? They are again saying that the market is like an iron bar and when you bring a magnet near to it, the domains which were aligned randomly get all aligned in a particular direction. Laws of physics. So the underneath of the stock market is human behaviour only. The people underneath the marker behave in a certain way. All buying or selling. What’s making them do so, again some or the other form of communication. Some see the derivative of it in charts and numbers, some see it in the wholesome view of it.

Ok enough said! I can go endless on this, but I would stop here. :smiley:

@nithin @siva, sorry, I went off-topic, if you feel I have crossed the community guidelines, please feel free to delete the posts.

Taking a detour, coming back to the topic, Coin needs attention. It has the potential to be a good product, and investors want everything at one place. Investors don’t want to keep hopping from this platform for this to that platform for that. Coin needs the attention it deserves. I hope my constant push is taken in a positive way.

On another lighter note, Coin team please bear with me if my external audit and review affect your appraisal :sweat_smile:

3 Likes

@nithin @Bhuvan @faisr
If you follow the Reddit community r/IndiaInvestments, a lot of people have argued about getting at least some of these points in the Coin application.
The first step of implementing a change is accepting there is a problem with the system in the first place. So that has been taken care of - good to know.
The second step is formulating the solution, figuring out what are the exact changes we are working on the next release of the application, which either can be achieved with as minimal impact to the Coin architecture OR the changes formulated after careful diligence on what is the optimal solution and proceeding from there.
The third step is working on the changes until the next release, and doing the release. That’s basically the product life cycle, right? But, I just don’t see this happening here in this context.

Points in this post have been raised for over two years now. Maybe not all points are possible to implement, some are not logical to your architecture, true, that is possible. But coming out with a solution and working on it for at least some of the points which sound logical would demand a better reply than - “we are doing something” & “we’ll look at extending the cut-off down the line”. I feel these are diplomatic replies. The only outlook you all are giving, speaking as an unbiased user are the devs and management pretty much don’t care about the Coin platform, and have grown complacent with the features it currently has. I hope its not the case. :slight_smile:

1 Like


Possible, provided Coin is sending the orders to exchange with SOA mode set to TRUE. For comparison, RankMF provides the SOA vs Demat option to a subscriber while subscription. If the same is added to Coin, nothing better.

2 Likes

We already did that many times. Few things mentioned are not possible and on few we are working. Yes, it is taking more time but we are on it. Can’t give any ETA.

Can you please elaborate on this to bring in clarity.

Please take this list as reference:

With my understanding, I have already removed #5 i.e. insta redeem Liquid funds which is not possible for MF in Demat mode.

Can you please tell me which other items on the list are not possible?

Sir. You can done a great research at your own. The other things which I have found with coin is that Coin virtually offers SIP, they don’t offer actual SIP. They bought MF units each and every month on a particular day. That is the reason you can not start with minimum SIP amount. You need to purchase units with minimum lumpsum so that they will open you portfolio in the given AMC and then they will purchase for you every month.
I personally do all my mutual fund investment through CAMS and KFINTECH website or mobile application. They offer consolidated platform.
I will request you to take the overview of both CAMS and KARVY website features and then to decide to shift your mutual fund investments.

1 Like