Sir if I’m wrong please correct me if I am wrong but it actually costs more than 2000 rupees to get the data from a data vendor. Data I believe comes at a cost. To provide this data to customers there’s a cost. In fact if we look at the market as a whole it’s a fair fee. Fyers is able to give it at a discount of 500 rupees (they have a partnership with truedata. I tried to buy data directly from truedata and they told me it would cost something like 2600. So basically they are expecting a large number of people to join the service.) Then there’s upstox. Actually upstox hasn’t stopped giving new access. A customer can just email them. It will take something like 2 or 3 months. Basically they check whether you generate a large brokerage fee so as to justify giving you cheap data. Then there’s aliceblue and interactive brokers. Aliceblue is doing something amazing. But I just can’t make sense of it. The truth is data costs a lot. They are giving it to you for free. More the number of people accessing the data. More they need to pay. I mean how is that financially viable. Anyway it’s actually good for us retail customers. Or is it. I mean how reliable are they as a business. They give so much leverage. Imagine the loss they might have incurred from that crudeoil episode. Interactive brokers kind of makes sure that you are rich enough to trade with them. Now some personal opinion. The thing is it’s very hard to make money from algo trading. We all read about strategies used by large prop desks and financial institutions. The thing is it’s only known to them. And they are most probably created by really smart people with a very deep understanding of mathematics. Look at streak. They have some sample strategies. These are actually very nice. But they are not the kind of strategies that prop desks use. I read on some other thread in trading qna about a fellow trader talking about how much it costs for sensibull and api. That’s like 1000 for sensibull and 4000 for both data. The thing is why would anyone pay for sensibull when you have so much resources available through the api. I mean you could create your own sensibull. Then there was a discussion on fyers api group. They came up with a new minimum charge of 7 rupees. This was especially bad for people using bracket orders. They started revolting. I mean everybody in the group started complaining. Finally fyers scrapped that charge. The thing is people are just typing whatever that’s there in the api document. They couldn’t come up with a few extra lines of code to just place a stop loss and profit order when the conditions were met. I totally agree with you that there should at least be some free trial provided. At least for a month. But overall I agree with the 2000 rupee price because simply that’s what it costs. Again correct me if I am wrong sir.
@pudding_cup I think you should format your paragraph properly. It is hard to read in a single paragraph.
We have already hijacked the thread and discussing a different topic all together.
Its upto Zerodha to decide the pricing, they know better the cost involved etc. No one will have issues to pay 2k, 4k or 6k if they are earning good from the algos. But to code the algos, users have to pay 2k from the day 1, thats the issue in my opinion.
Lets not discuss this any further on this thread.
As I work with all brokers, I can tell in this part.
None. Crude Oil was blocked all total.
- Alice Blue RMS sometimes takes a huge exposure margin. So the same position will take a low positional margin in Zerodha and high in Alice Blue.
- Here is another example - They don’t allow BankNIFTY and NIFTY weekly options to settle.
They know their IT sucks after there was one event of BankNIFTY last year’s September. There was a huge loss. After that, they rampantly block this that.
You can create browser based API on Selenium easily and using n number of methods. If an user can access data in Zerodha by giving username and password, a machine can do that too.
A sharp coder will unlikely pay for anyone’s API. Broker’s API will always have many limitations like request limit checks. Creating own wrapper saves huge latency. Its not about money. Did you see Aliceblue login really sucks in Oauth Method. It stucks many times!
You can even fetch data from Tradingview and Investing for free. Explore and Upskill.
Here is a starter - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PXSfi0Rsho. I did it live for 5paisa. Do same for Zerodha. I even did for Angel Broking and SAS Online who gives no API. Create your own API. This is a very basic python.
But You will not find talking about it because it is against TOS of Zerodha obviously. I am a zerodha partner. So I myself will not advocate sharing more of this on Zerodha.
Note - I asked explicit permission from 5paisa team.
Hi, can I trade using PI if I migrate to Orbis? Also does this migration affect order execution speed?Thanks.
Thanks for sharing the video link.
I have already done that automaing execution on few brokers platfoorm using Selenium, but it has its own set of problems:
There are many ways you can automate:
- Traditional: simulate what a user normally would do ie use xpath/css selectors and fill the input fields, click on buttons etc
- Call the APIs directly what brokers platform is already using (XHR), you can execute the same API within the exiisting logged in session.
- Few brokers using Websockets for order placement as well as tickers data. This one toughest to automate. You will have to create chrome pugiin to intercept WebSocket communcation or monkey-patch the WebSocket which broker platform is using.
- Automate the desktop apps
Problems:
- Continous maintaince of Selenium scripts because of html/css layout change
- Slow to execute…it adds delay, have seen upto 2-3 seconds delay if go with xpath/css selector route
- Underlying API execution is fast, getting order updates is slow…
- Complaince issues… well it is hard to check from broker ends whether it is automated execution or a human is doing but there are ways still that can be identified.
It is always many times better to go with official APIs broker is providing.
No one will complain for 2000/- rs if they are earning good, but when one is experimenting, at the initial stage of development 2000/- seems way high IMO. Also when comparing the offring from other brokers it is high even after initial development. Also I was not in support of the justification for high price what siva provided.
You can, no changes to execution speeds.
XHR only. Python Requests! Selenium sucks. I never used Selenium to see. (XHR thing yes). Selenium is only used if there is Google Captcha. Post token generation, again back to XHR or WSS.
Chrome Network tabs will show you. No need for the plugin. WSS is the best method. That’s why I find Upstox fastest in terms of execution speed. (Provided they are working. Thanks to their recent 1 month free brokerage scheme unlimited new people joined and crashing everyday.)
I beg to differ. I did for every broker and I run a significant client base. There are many crosscheck in official APIs like rate limiting, this, that.
Normal requests will be always faster (Tested properly).
I never argued on it. If even someone makes huge money on market, 2000 is huge fee lol.
Hi, do they have a limitation on OTM strike prices like Zerodha . I am really frustrated with zerodha when it comes to trading otm strike prices .
No limitation on any of otm strikes at least for the current weekly and monthly.
Have not tried for next weekly coz of liquidity issues.
Thank you brother.
No restriction if NRML.
Restriction in MIS to 10% from CMP. (Sometimes they reduce it to 5% and 3% too.)
Update on SASOnline:
I have been using SASOnline from last 1.5 years with browser based automation to place automated trades, from last 2-3 months stability of the platform is questionable. It used to work flawlessly even in the most highly volatile environment.
- Now even with slight volatility, order did not place and take a long time to exeute.
- Even I place a market order, sometime it goes to Pending order list as limit order, because of this single reason I have lost huge amount.
- Gets logout without any reason, once logout unable to login again with multiple tries.
My reason to stay with SASOnline was all this while:
- 999/- monthy plan (significant brokerage savings)
- OTM strikes available to buy
- Stable environment
Since #3 is no longer valid, and because of unstability have lost huge amount (hence #1 does not makes sense)… moving away from SASOnline
They provide NEST .
why dont u use NEST ?
I am calling their APIs though browser based automation… once logged into the browser NEST Disconnect and vice-versa.
I have used their API (python) and experience is not good. Many times had isse with login and everyday I must check token status. It defeats the purpose of full automation.
Scam alert
Story:
Usually broker have 50:50 rule collateral usage for fno trades, but AliceBlue doesnot have this limitation. I confirmed this with their support. See the screenshot
So I transferred some of my long-term shares to Alice blue, pledged it, and got around a 4L margin. Then I took a fno trade that had 1.2 L margin requirement. After 1 week I was just randomly checking my ledger and found daily I was charged a penalty for this 1.2L debit balance. I asked support why this is the case. They said I didn’t have enough margin. Seriously? I had a 4L margin and cannot take a trade worth 1.2L.
I don’t know whether this can be considered a scam or not, I felt cheated and will close my AliceBlue account asap. Did I tell you there is no option to unpledge shares, only repledge is allowed. Later through support, I found out that repledge == unpledge. Repledge button has same message as pledge button (Client to TM, then TM to CC wala message). Their website/support is very bad. Tax reports are the worst in class.
Thanks.
Keep the reviews coming
here is the case with us…the GRC order was to credit the amount in 4 days but nothing happened and even after 4 months, I am chasing NSE to credit the same…they are telling another 2 monhts because you earned something from trading 
I recently terminated my partnership when them when their CTO stole my friend’s code shamelessly.
Anyways, They do not maintain anything at all.
Here is a 5,00,000 INR fine imposed on them. https://www.sebi.gov.in/enforcement/orders/oct-2019/adjudication-order-in-respect-of-m-s-alice-blue-commodities-pvt-ltd-_44784.html
Here is another penalty of 4.32Cr. Alice Blue Financial Services ... vs Sebi on 9 October, 2020
Also, They do not give the client money even after NSE GRC awards it.
So, They can give you a 200% margin on your collateral stock.