I must say, you people always think for the traders, Great work.
Congrats on releasing the new feature
I have a question about the effect of Basket orders on order Rate Limits. Have Rate limits been relaxed (or don’t apply) when using basket orders or they remain unchanged? I am curious because as per this support page (referenced below), only 10 orders can be placed per second but the basket order allows placing up to 20 orders in one go. Also, what would happen if a person creates 20 baskets (& places 20 order each in every one of those baskets) and then proceeds forward with executing all those baskets one by one in less than a minute? Will the rate limit of 200 orders per minute apply in that case?
As a risk management measure, at Zerodha, a single user will not be able to place more than 2000 BO/CO and 2000 NRML/MIS/CNC/AMO orders per day. This restriction is across all segments.
There are also limitations at 200 orders per minute and 10 orders per second.
Rate limitations also apply for order modification where a maximum of 25 modifications are allowed per order.
I asked about this in another thread but couldn’t get a definite answer.
Also, another thing that I am interested in knowing is, what happens to the Basket once the basket order gets executed? Will it remain accessible so that we can use it to exit/square off the multiple individual order contained within it in one go somehow or will it be deleted/removed once the execution is done?
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@nithin @siva
As expressed elsewhere, my concern is regarding synchronization between order execution & margin updation post execution.
Suppose I use sell-buy-sell-buy sequence to take position outside strike range. And after execution of 2nd buy order, the margin benefit calculations are delayed by few microseconds & next sell order gets fired before my margin limits are released. Then surely this sell order will get rejected due to insufficient margins.
Plz clarify.
@siva @nithin To Solve OI and Hedge benefits problem you can implements Net Quantity basis.
If their are same Buy and same quantity. Consider That trade is hedges and execute internally Buy first and sell Later.
You can keep some conditions to execute above scenario. Say
- only Market orders allowed (to avoid order not executing)
- Only X above volumes Strikes (to avoid Due to Low volume even market order not executing)
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Zerodha will give some solution. Everybody will start using it. OI will increase. Limits will be breached. And we will be at square one.
Zerodha need to do something to solve this issue permanently - acquire another licence, start sister brokerage, go on shopping, partner with some tiny brokerage firm etc etc etc.
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- Need a keyboard shortcut to access this feature.
- Should have the ability to save / load file from local drive.
(ability to load a txt file created in backend is one of the key feature of basket orders)
Accessing and adding scrips consumes a lot of time!
Overall kite keyboard shortcuts should be reviewed.
Example:
On keypress ‘O’ the order tab is displayed but we are unable to browse through the orders and cancel a particular order.
It should be some thing like
On keypress ‘O’ the order tab is displayed and then we should be able to browse through the active orders to modify / cancel them (just like how we browse through scrips in marketwatch.
On keypress ‘M’ should be back to market watch.
This might at least convince us (Traders) to use KITE!
@siva
Can you explain the logic of margin calculations in this order sequence?
Going by the logic explained in example by @nithin above I was thinking some 20L will be initial Required .margins.
The required margins for short strangle is much less!
Funny Maths:
242k+11k = 370k
Will it execute when we place sell order first and then buy order for MIS Equity stocks
Let me check this.
That’s the issue. Can’t take buy position b4 executing sell leg. OI issue.
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Yeah, as told sequence is important, send the buys first.
OI limit is different issue, as of now we can’t fix both in same case.
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They have simply added margins for individual short legs “not preceded by hedge buy leg”.
Deeply flawed logic!
Will try to explain.
Placing one basket is fine because we don’t send all orders at once, there is little gap between each order,yeah per minute logic will kick in.
Basket will be saved once created, if one want to exit then they have to create another basket with sell orders if initial basket is buy and viceversa or change the order type in same basket and execute.
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Yeah, this can happen to any orders, if there is any late response for first order then post orders maybe rejected for insufficient funds if it is hedge strategy as every thing has to happen in milli seconds.
At opening time we may face this.
This is not so easy to implement, very complex.
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Yeah, will add in coming days.
Build in logic where in next order get’s executed only if preceding order gets executed.
Or add place button to each leg. We can manually fire one by one.
hmm… no. In your example,
Margin required for a naked short of 10800 PE is 20lks, it shows 16lks above because it considers the 12000 CE short and long (in the same sequence) as open positions before it is calculating the margin required for the Nifty 10800 PE short.
So yeah, the required margin is a sum of all margin required in that basket, but the margin for each individual order in the basket is calculated based on sequence of orders before that particular order.
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