I want to invest in a stock for long term and short term at same time. For example. I have a longterm investment in Reliance but in between i find a short term trading opportunity for a week but both price are different in this case zerodha Average my price and after one week i want to square off my position that taken one week ago. In this some time i get loss.
Can any method to separate out this two investment of same company in zerodha?
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zerodha is working on tagging feature, this will be of help to you when released…
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Haven’t tested this but a method that might be helpful in your scenario could be creating a custom Smallcase for the short-term trades. As Smallcase doesn’t follow the FIFO method for calculating average buy price (explained in detail here) it would likely show accurate P/L for those short-term trades.
But there might be some downsides like the inability to invest in a single stock when creating a custom smallcase (this can likely be mitigated by selling individual stocks later as explained here. Maybe @vasanthkamath could clarify this). Also, there is a one-time charge for creating a custom Smallcase.
To add to my reply above, the Smallcase method (if it works), would only show accurate P/L on its interface. Behind the scenes (aka on Kite/Console), you will continue to see what you are seeing now. This happens because the average buy price is calculated on a FIFO basis (explained here).
There was a recent discussion on a different thread about locking-in specific shares but that doesn’t seem to be possible -
मैं ने दो किलो आलू ५० रु किलो में ख़रीदे परसों! आज मैंने १ किलो आलू ३० रु में ख़रीदे.
अब मै दम आलू इन ३ किलो में से किसी भी आलू के बनाऊ और चिप्स बाकी के आलू के!
क्या फर्क पड़ता है!?
Profit and loss is not calculated like this. I remember 2 years back a newbie came on TQA. He was is similar dilemma. He had bought some shares for 100 rs and some more shares for 200rs. he wanted to sell some shares that day. But as the CMP was 150 that day, he wanted to sell only those shares that he had bought for 100 rs (hence profit) . He was worried to death that if zerodha sells 200 wale shares, he will be in a loss of 50 rs rather than profit of 50 rs.
He was irritated at zerodha because it was not allowing him to choose the shares.
The best way is to note price and profit /loss of your short term trades anywhere else.
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I buy a share at multiple price. One it’s go beyond by average price that day i want to sell 50% of my share and want to book 50% profit and for remaining 50% i want to wait.
But if i check my p&l it not book 50% profit other than book loss. That’s why ask.
Otherwise if zerodha give me option to choose stock strip for selling. It’s easy for us to sell lower price share right now and wait for higher price little more.
Problems
- For buy through smallcase, smallcase also charge some fee that’s not a big issue.
- If i have already that share at higher price that i buy through smallcase at the end it buy through kite and kite show average price and i want to sell only smallcase share in that case it also sell through kite and kite follow FIFO it sell my higher price share that i want to wait longer and want to book profit for my short term. Smallcase only help to show the short term portfolio p&L separately nothing else.
Behind the scenes problem still remain.
Bhai, ek fokat ki salah!
Plz study before wasting time and money in trading or investing.
You currently can’t even grasp basics of the stock market.
Shares are not like Jeans Pants. Mahengi wali jeans is better than Cheap wali.
Shares you buy at 200 is same as share you buy at 100.
Suppose you have bought 100 shares for 100 rs and 100 shares for 200 rs. All 200 shares are same with avg price equal to 150rs. Now if you sell 100 shares for 125 that means you are booking losses. It doesn’t matter which shares you sold.
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Well, that is the reason we have F&O segments in market. Alternatively, keep your long term investments in a separate demat account, and dedicate one for trading.
Don’t mix it up unless you have some research or a problem solving goal with regards to how order sytem math works.
Meri wahjah se Suicide mat karna warna bhut problem ho jayegi.
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You’r right with basic math. Average price is 150 and selling below average price means booking loss , that’s you want to teach me basic of stock market.
Think about background math behind 100 share on 100 price at price 125 give 25 profit on each share and 100 share on 200 price at price 125 give 75 loss on each share. But both are not realized profit or loss. and time has it’s own worth that increase or decrease share value.
If you sell 100 share on 125 then you think you book loss 25 each share but in background if you check your p&l you book 75 loss on each share and now your average price is not 150 it 100 now because zerodha sell in FIFO order.
In your case you sell 100 share and book loss of 75 each share right now and another 100 share you increase profit when price go above 125 and decrease profit when price go below 125.
In my case I want to sell 100 share and book profit 25 each right now and another 100 share I decrease loss when price go above 125 and increase loss when price go below 125.
But i assume that price go up but I want to cash some part of share that not give the realized loss right now that’s the difference of thing.
That’s why i ask this question.
Can i do this with zerodha.
You’re more intelligent that’s not a doubt and your profile tell this clearly. Below the basic math for your understanding.
In this case you calculate loss (125-150)×200 and i calculate like (125-100)×100+(125-200)×100
In both case loss are same but which part you selling make your realized p&l and other part you give time value to increase or decrease price.
In zerodha case they force you sell like FIFO because they don’t want to do complex math.
Nothing like complex math, we do that because that is the right way to do.
FIFO method is used because those are the rules set by GOI - https://www.incometaxindia.gov.in/Communications/Circular/910110000000000355.htm.
I think you likely got confused because of the other thread that I quoted above - Portfolio-average price and p&l on kite - #15 by nithin.
Regarding that specific thread, I am also curious about how a broker can provide a share lock-in facility if it ends up violating FIFO. As FIFO needs to be followed always, is the share lock-in facility only for show? (That specific thread has become a little confusing because the user that asked the question (@Gautam) has left the forum and their replies on the forum have been deleted. Only quoted parts of their reply remain. If I remember correctly, the broker they mentioned was HDFC Sec, which provides a lock-in share facility).
Right now i got my answer, there not any way to do that but by curiosity i ask this question.
Thanks all you guys to clarify my doubt.
Ok and thanks @siva but you guys not do in other permutation and combination according to user preferences if user want to do this.
No, we believe this is the right and most conservative way to do things. Filing taxes and all is up to user.
Bhai wohi samjhane ki koshish kar raha hoon.
Once you buy baingans at two different dates and two different prices and ghar pe aake ek hee topli mein daal diye.
Phir 2-3 din baad baingan ka bharta karna hai to koi bhi baingan utha lo! You cannot distinguish between them.
Shares ke upar MRP printed hoti hai kya?
When you buy shares do you note down share certificate number?
If you buy for 100 rs first and for 200 rs later.
OR
you buy for 200 rs first and for 100 rs later.
Even with Zerodha FIFO - they will still show loss is you sell for 125 because you are in a loss.
After buying for long term, pledge those stocks for margin. This locks up these shares. Then buy and trade the short term stocks for as long as you like. You will only be able to sell the long term stocks after unpledging. I know its not ideal and doesn’t work for all stocks but its a good workaround nonetheless.
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