Change in margin update time

Every day, Margin get updated around 5:30 pm, which triggers a provisional margin shortfall email and results in a provisional margin shortfall. If this margin is updated before the market closes, it will give me the chance to update or square off my positions accordingly.

I also observe that if, during trading hours, my margin becomes negative by even Rs 1, Zerodha will send an email with a provisional 5% penalty. Sometimes I get an email even if my margin is always positive during the trading hours. Later, when I saw the margin statement, there was no peak margin shortfall. I still get penalty emails from Zerodha.

@nithin, I strongly feel there is something wrong with margin management and processes at Zerodha, as per my understanding.

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Visibility of margin is screwed up in Zerodha.

Not sure why their management is sleeping and not paying attention to this burning issue. I have raised this several times in past.

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NSE releases this margin file after market close, around 5 Pm hence we update it immediately so we can help users to fix if there is any shortfall. Guess not many brokers goes this length to help users.

So, why Exchange release file after market close?
NSE release new span files 5 times during the day, last one before market close will be at 2PM, based on last hour volatility and price change they release one at around 5 to 5.30 and we update it immediately so if any change in margins user will have time to adjust them before next day market open.

If you have any more doubt you can DM me your client ID, I can arrange a call and clear all your doubts. I believe already couple of days ago one of our team member DMed you for your client id.

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I’ll give you a generic response here and expand on the answer given by @siva above and ask my team member to look into your case specifically.

When the concept of peak margin was introduced, the CCs resorted to taking snapshots of portfolios at frequent random timestamps, and started applying margins for the respective portfolio. Clients were expected to ensure they have sufficient margins at all times for the portfolio snapshots taken.

The question now was, what risk array parameters to apply to these portfolios to determine the margins since they’re taken at different times during the day, and as @siva has said above, the CCs publish 5 risk arrays every day. Earlier, the CCs resorted to applying the prevalent risk array and computed margins. So for the portfolio snapshot of 10:30 am, the risk array of 10:00 am was applied, for the portfolio snapshot of 3:00 pm, the risk array of 3:00 pm would be applied. While this was understandable, the CC also expected brokers to have collected the margin for each portfolio, failing which it would be qualified as a case of margin shortfall, and penalty would be charged which could not be passed on to the client. This was impossible for any broker to comply. This is because, assume the margins for one lot of Nifty at 10:00 am was Rs.1,55,000 and the broker ensured to have collected this from the client. Now, on account of any intraday volatility, if the margins went up to Rs.1,70,000 at 03:00 pm, the broker was expected to have collected Rs.1,70,000 for the same position that was entered into the client in the morning at 10:00 am. If the client did not transfer the difference of Rs.15,000, then the broker would be penalized for short margin collection.

Since compliance to this was impossible (because no broker could pre-empt volatility and charge margins) there was a change made in the way margins would required to be collected from a “margin reporting” perspective. Today, when snapshots are taken for the levy of peak margins, the risk array applied is fixed to be that what existed at the beginning of the day (BOD), and margins for the sake of margin collection is calculated basis these values.

While peak margin is calculated four times during the day - with the highest margin requirement from these snapshots expected to be maintained by the client; there is also a separate concept of margin requirements based on the client’s end-of-day positions. This again, is calculated on the basis of BOD parameters for the sake of margin reporting but what is actually blocked at a broker level which inturn is charged to the client is the actual margin calculated for EOD position as per EOD parameters. The EOD parameters are published by the exchange after the market close, and what’s charged on Kite are margins required to be maintained as per BOD parameters. This may be the reason you’re getting the margin calls after the close of the markets.

As I’ve said above, my team will connect to you via ticket/ any other convenient mode and explain to you in detail quoting details of your positions for respective days.

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Problem is they don’t even acknowledge that there’s a problem.

Which is the reason why this needs to be escalated. Someone is not thinking next level / for the user / ahead of the competition @nithin

I have got emails for margin penalties of 5% even when there were no peak margin shortfalls, what explains that?

Can you forward that email to me at [email protected].

I have forwarded the last 7 emails. I can forward more if required.


What to do in dis case,why r u sending provisional margin shortfall message,EOD dere is zero margin shortfall,
Why to add 4 lakh before 9.14 if dere is no shortfall in d morning

Do you have any nifty shorts which are gonna expire today?

just tell us one thing is the peak margin penalty is going to taken from client or from broker only in this case (zerodha)…because according to exchange you means broker can’t pass this penalty to the client and if you (broker) is doing this then that is totally wrong…

ELM penalty is on us, we don’t pass this to client. But if there is hedge break or any one leg getting expired the penalty is passed to client as per regulation.

I have answered your query here Provisional margin shortfall for F&O positions - #14 by bit2

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Yes sir,but I square off some positions,and add position according to 2 percents elm rule,
Why zerodha is adding 2 percents elm margin on 1 dte expiry EOD,2 percents elm margin is only for expiry day,

Yeah, in this case seems there was issue from our end in triggering email, this was passed to team and necessary corrections are taken, sorry and thanks.

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