Dynamic Margins

@nithin why are the margins so dynamic now by Zerodha? Margin has increased a lot for today’s trade. However in the ledger it shows a different value? How are customers supposed to adjust to this dynamic positioning?
also the margin reportted to the exchange is a much lower value?

I understand this is done to avoid margin penalty? But how are we supposed to plan out trades? This sudden margin increase will incur losses.

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Today we have increased slightly because of the expected volatility in the markets and also because of potential issues due to the quarterly settlement done across all our clients on the weekend. We will reduce this during the day once everything feels normal.

I had shared this on the topic:

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I am wondering how will increase in margin incur losses. Quite an interesting topic for me.

Opening one percent up or down isn’t even that unusual these days. Par for the course…

Increasing it was a bit disappointing move because at 9:15, I squared off a bit to free the margins. Then around 9:30, I see that the margins have gone back to normal, but by that time the premiums went down a bit, so unnecessary loss…

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1% is what we figured after opening, but as I mentioned earlier, it is also because of the weekend quarterly settlement issue and we wanted to be extra cautious at the open.

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No margin penalty, no need for squaring off a bit. But its sad to get out of a good trade.

If we don’t square it off their internal team will do and charge brokerage of 40 per order. Also the order side is kept to minimum so that multiple orders can be placed and earn more brokerage. Also for each order separate call and trade charges are added.
Even if margin goes negative it can be brought to positive by closing one position. If they can’t figure that out then they shouldn’t be the ones in charge of closing positions. The work which could have happened for 40 to 100 rupees was done for 1k last week for me by just placing multiple orders.

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@nithin is this a norm going forward to increase margins at the last minute? or was it a one off thing?

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Thats how they make money then. Nice. Yes, closing all positions is ridiculous. I didn’t know about this. Thank you, will keep it in mind.

That’s why many rank Brokers just a tad better than drug dealers. Such unethical practices are probably set by top management , the employees would never take such decisions themselves.

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You know Zerodha is very big. Number 1.

They ll not miss you.

Else enjoy every moment, and take pride in being loyal.

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All brokers are made of the same stuff. Once established, they have their ‘screw drivers’ out!

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One thing I observed in so called smaller brokers, say fyers, dhan or espresso. They try to connect, real hard. and infact, they listen so well.

Zerodha has become too big, that for them every answer is will in line of, We have grown so BIG, so we are doing that.

Meanwhile, this is how espresso connects. Even for Monday, they would remind what things are ahead. The same goes for Fyers, like automated call reminders. Well, the effort.

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I have nothing against Zerodha. But the drift started the moment they removed Pi, then Bracket orders for intraday. Any request, the answer was, hey, we are too big, so it ll hit running costs. What do you know?

Well, what do I know? I moved out.

Doesn’t matter to them. I am just a number.

Conclusion. Don’t marry your broker just for the sake that you are Indian, and sympathy and being emotional is your trait.

Life is short. If you are getting options elsewhere, then just go to it. I am with espresso, cuz I get zero brokerage on losses, and their BO is great. I moved out of fyers, cuz espresso is better. I moved out of Dhan, cuz it doesn’t provide what I need.

But please, stop whining like you got no options.

Yes, life is short. Yes, even while working out in the “gym”, you know your chances of being dead can happen.

I am just a retail trader. I ll go best where my tiny weeny trades are executed flawlessly.

I think I have misread it as bank robbers :grin:

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this happens when you try to see a pattern in everything.

I am not sure, but I think there is a pattern in everything. Chaos theory.

Not that I can find one, if there is one :face_in_clouds:

Not at all. If one client goes away it hardly matters to them.

Nah. Am not married to Zerodha. But right now I just do not have an alternative. When I get one I will not have second thoughts.

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I wouldn’t really blame the management right away without knowing what’s their intention. When I asked for the reason for closing in smaller order size I was told it’s intentionally done such that hedge isn’t broken and margin doesn’t increase. But I was having short strangle. Closing positions one side doesn’t increase the margin. It only reduces. And if the risk management team doesn’t know this, then they shouldn’t even be in that team.
I got a msg that my margin had gone negative. And in less than 2 mins 10 orders were places to close my positions. I was online right in front of the screen. Arey. Let me do it myself. All that was required was 1 order of bigger size on both sides. I was still okay with it. Next day I see for each order there are call and trade charges.

@Jason_Castelino so you did not present the whole truth the first time :stuck_out_tongue:

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Which part are you talking about?