Intraday Banknifty

I have faced this too. A lot of times due to a sudden spike in volatility the SL doesn’t get hit and even if you have placed SL-M order it might get executed very far away from the SL. My suggestion, avoid buying Options. Trade in Futures or Short Options.
Here are my reasons why option buying is considerably riskier as compared to futures:
a) In case of profits: Option buying will give you good profits only when there is a good breakout. In gradual increase of price, the premium may not increase and in fact, decrease because Option writers jump in at any chance available.
b) In case of Loss: Option premium falls very rapidly when your trade and direction is wrong. As you must have experienced that already. The price in futures may not have fallen 10 points but a 20 points stop loss might get triggered in option buying case.
c) Bid-ask spread: Buying generally happens at a higher price if you place a market buy and similarly a sell will be at a lower price. If you wait to buy or place a lower price as limit, you might miss opportunities and similar thing occurs at the exit because the volatility gets magnified in options as compared to the underlying.

Considering so many disadvantages, it is better to avoid options for buying. The only disadvantage of futures is the huge STT cost. It can take up a huge chunk of your profits, still, it is better to pay more STT than make large losses. Also, the chances of SL not getting triggered on futures is very low as they are more liquid than options.

One Question.
Where do you guys set your stop loss? Trading system ?

Yes on Trading System. Zerodha Kite.

Good day.

Trading is MENTAL. You have to be a disciplined computer, executing what you decided for yourself before you take a position. Which includes executing the “Mental” stop losses the moment it hits it in the market. How can one do that?

Primer on Self-Worth
Starts with Accepting that if stop loss gets hit, you are not wrong. You are still the same person, and deserve the best in life. Don’t hate/ scold yourself. No point in getting angry or sad. Market is like your Boy / Girlfriend. They have their own mind so does the market, and trying to control them with your expectations is sure way to misery. Same with the Market.

Ask this, will I like myself if the stop loss gets hit? Then ask, will I be still in the Market if the stop loss gets hit? Third and finally ask whether have I backtested the pattern, and know the statistics and probability pattern?

Having a Stop loss is a discipline, like brushing our teeth in the early morning. Every activity in life must have a stop loss, not just your trade. Whether you are proposing a girl, or risking your job by taking an entrepreneurial endeavor, start a bar fight under influence or going to war. All needs stop loss. Hope you don’t stake your entire account as stop loss on a single trade.

Lesson in Probability
The above questions helps to psychologically simulate the loss that stop loss brings. You can feel it and decide whether that much loss can be bearable. Then take the position in the market, with the stop loss in your mind. When you find a pattern that seems to fit all the bullish features, market still has the last word, not you, me, exchange or the broker.

The same pattern might arise 10 times out of which 7 times it would have been bullish. That is 70% probability (which is really a competitive pattern, and imaginary) Thinking in this way, you should conclude that if you see same pattern, and if you take the position 10 times, there is 30% chance that your stop loss will be hit. That is 3 out of 10 times of trading the same pattern.

The stop loss getting hit 3 times can happen in a row, or distributed over the 10 times you are taking the position. Do you see, what I mean. You have to see, and feel the probability. Lets assume your stop loss brings 500 INR loss for one time hit. Can you see the market hitting the stop loss 3 times or more in a row, and you still liking yourself? Can you see the “Red Losses” in the position and still go on about your daily tasks? Love yourself? Be patient? Please read again and think, I learnt this hard way and started following position sizing.

I have shared about position sizing that I read, take a look at that. That idea gave me the break I really needed in the market. I am grateful to many authors, whom I may not even come in contact with.

Even if you are correct in seeing the pattern, even if your research is perfect, even if you have worked hard, your stop loss will get hit if you don’t give sufficient space for the pattern to work. If the market hits your stop loss, kill the trade, exit it mercilessly and safeguard your capital. Then feel satisfied that, you followed your system. Even though you made a loss.

Relying on stop orders the brokers provide is important when you begin trading. Use them. They are like training wheels on your bicycle. Drop them, if you want to go faster. You will have accidents, bruises, bone fractures… Hey, you want to be free right?? You wanted it… Be disciplined and you will become the champ and free… One day. We all become The Champ one day.

PS: Do you watch Holly/Bolly/Tolly/Kollywood movies or series? Where heroes/ heroines take unwarranted risks, and come out best. Nope, that would be called reckless. If your half monk, still your emotions and feelings both of which will play on your rationality. Be mindful, learn being mindful. Dump your netflix, prime or whatever and Start Reading loads of books, loads of them…

Happy Trading.

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@Qrious_Kamal Hi, your reply is detailed and thoughtful, I really like the way you are looking at the market & how one should trade.
I am quite sure that you have read lot of material in form of books or content.
Currently I am testing my strategy and the main issues I am facing is regarding SL & Trailing my profits. Can you suggest some resources which might help me learn & tackle these challenges?

Thanks… :slight_smile:

I had written about it here. Glad to help.

Happy Trading.

strong text A must read!!strong text@silentbull
Jus trading 20 times a day for 10 points each will not work out based on my experience. I would suggest you some points out of my experience:

  1. Limit the number of trades you take a day-2 or 3 or 4.
  2. Limit the amount of profit and also loss for a day. When the amount is gained/ lost you must stop for the day.
  3. Market is so volatile at some points in a day. You don’t know when can they pick a momentum. It would be the time where you would loose all your gains and fall into enough loss whose recovery leads you into more losses.
  4. The task you are doing here is known as Scalping. Study more on it.
  5. During a trading day select a best time for scalping based on your own experience
  6. When you go for Scalping your risk to reward is very high. This is not good. More risk with less reward.
  7. I would suggest you to use some indicators like Super trend, ema 50,100,200 for 1 min candles for scalping. This may add some meaning to yout no basis trades
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Use Cover Order (CO). It always sets a Market Stoploss instead of Limit Stoploss.

image
Beware, even in intraday the market can gap down, especially in illiquid instruments like options. Irrespective of the type of order, If your trigger price is jumped in the gap down or gap up then your order will not get executed.

In both the cases shown above, the market gaped down in 5 min interval, then it went up higher and lower. So if the trigger price was missed during the gap down, it would have got executed within the next 5 mins. Odds and patience were in your favour.

We can infer that, the odds of such gap downs are once or twice in a 100 times. Still it is significant, if you are carrying more contracts. You have decide between automation, and risk when you are using such orders.

What I have learned in many trade with Bank Nifty Intraday Trading: SL is your real profit and Profit is your rewards against your patience and workout.

Calculate the loss you have booked till date and compare with it what if you have put SL in each loss.

So, you realize your real profit.

@Qrious_Kamal are you saying that even SLM will not be triggered ? Because I think SL limit has chances of skipping but SLM definitely gets triggered.

@Stonecold
In the market there is probability for everything. Even if something has an odds of 1 in 1000 times, it can happen. We all see there is regular gap down and up between each days, and we can say with 100% probability that 13/07 will open with a gap up/down. The trigger prices in the gaps will be ignored, correct?

Zoom in to Intraday time line. Lets assume the odds of price gap in 6.5 hrs intraday interval is 15 out of 1000 trades, which is 0.015 probability. So it is safe to assume that trigger price that you give will get triggered. Still, there is a Black Swan like chance for the trigger to be missed. Definitely is an misnomer in a market place where uncertainty is the norm.

The exchanges try their level best to maintain the continuity between prices in the intraday. They are measured based on how effectively they can do that. Even then, we see atleast 2 to 3 points discontinuity in intraday. And with HFTs, and quants becoming active, one has to be vigilant.

I think I have a doubt here whether trigger price of SLM will be executed in case of gaps or not. Maybe @nithin can clear this doubt.

No solution.
Edit: you’d have to grow against these

In a Cover Order, either SL Limit or Target Limit only can be added. BO is blocked by Zerodha. In GTT order, Twice happened to me in GTT history - triggered the SL but skipped the “SL Price” and so faced huge loss. @beherat

Why doesn’t zerodha start bracket order

Could somebody please guide me, how to copy the support & Resistance levels drawn on Nifty Futures to Atm Call or Put? I just want to know the support & Resistance figure on Atm call or Put.
@leodecaps @maddy_Des @Gurly7 @rahulkhanna @trader_dude @sekhar916 @saurav106 @abhi9392 @ShubhS9 @leodecaps @vishnux

You are doing it wrong. What ever analysis you have to do, do it on underlying chart (Nifty) not on Options chart.

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I agree with you, but suppose in Nifty (Index)11120 target calculated as Target, how to calculate that position in Options.
@ShubhS9

Set an alert for your Target price on Nifty, once that alert is triggered, square-off your Option position.

You can use Sentinel to set alerts.