Is day trading profitable?

This guy is trying to find out how people are doing intraday and growing with 100% capital gain. I can tell there is a superior psychology and superior analysis, but that person also needs superior practice and unshakable discipline. And this is true intraday trading cant beat long term investing but real question is who has the bigger capital if an intraday trader has 1 Cr and he made 30% per year it’s 30 lakhs & a long-term investor made 100% gain with 1 lakh capital who is the pro and who is the noob? what works and what doesn’t?

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100% capital gain and other nonsense is very old. Go beat Jim Simons.

Some people believe Earth is flat. There is no such thing as Universal agreement even on patent facts.

For retail trader active-trading and TA go hand in hand.

What else they follow?

No point in being pedantic.

Wikipedia Mods are known to delete even valid information. They deleted valid criticism of Vaccines and their side effects. That is just one example. Don’t bring Wikipedia, it is not a valid resource. Direct links to papers that is a valid source.

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Interesting discussion!

One thing that comes to my mind reading this thread is that: ‘There are a million ways to skin a cat’

Nothing works for everyone in the same way. Everyone can be right in their own way.

So, the sensible approach is to keep trying different things - identify what works for you - do more of it and less of what doesn’t.

For every Warren Buffett - there is a Jim Simons who will outperform in CAGR returns but underperform in terms of number of years lived. That’s life.

I do short term options trading from my pledged capital invested in index + liquid funds → which helps me generate extra cash to take medium term stock bets → from which I identify long term investments and hold them as long as they appreciate → the returns keep going back to the pledged capital pool and the cycle continues.

All of it is mostly based on TA which according to me is only about pattern recognition and maths. It’s just one component of the vehicle and not the vehicle itself. FA, Quant, Sentiments etc. are other such components.

The overall trading process is what matters. And this approach has helped me remain profitable for the last many years and generate higher returns than the NIFTY TRI index benchmark so far.

Another lesson that I have learned is that there is no such thing as discipline. Discipline is just the disguise of habits which form by following the same process repeatedly until it becomes second nature.

The key then is to have a profitable and systemized process that you enjoy, and you know will not only help you make money but also compound it overall. The key is compounding (reinvesting part / full returns). Because if you are not compounding your returns - you will keep running but not reach anywhere.

Once you have it, you just need to keep following it until it becomes second nature. Doing that repeatedly for long term is what will lead to the J curve compounding effect.

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There is no rule that says 1% have to keep changing or remain constant. Traders who are alert to the changes will adapt with their experience. If a trader loses in a particular year, does all his previous years gains and (potential gains in future) count for nothing? As long as profits exceed losses (and transaction costs), one can pursue any form of trading.

As a trader, one should just focus on whether he is making enough profits or not. Unnecessary thoughts whether he is in this year’s or next year’s 1% group help nobody.

Anyone who can find pattern in the following series will make money using TA.

Series : 7,-5,-4,1,0,-31,19,-3,-5,-4,8

This series denotes returns of a very popular Nifty Fifty stock which has been in downtrend since May.

These are the daily returns of that stock multiplied by 10 (rounded off for convenience).

If you fail to find pattern, then don’t tell me again that TA works.

Those who don’t want to do Maths can PM me to know the name of this stock.

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Really dont find time to post much here these days… But I’ll jot down some…

  1. Getting consistently profitable Intraday with Directional strategies using TA (or something else) is tough. But I know people who have gotten consistent results doing it.

  2. Most of my success is with non-directional options (with a hint of direction sometimes), systematically and without much TA. I use stop losses, targets, and roll strikes, the usual…those are important. My holding period is less than 2 days with OS. And yes I am in the 1% of traders.

  3. There is no need to choose between Long Term investments and Trading. Most non-directional traders (Option Sellers) are heavily invested, and only trade using margin obtained from pledging investments. So returns are addon to LT investing.

  4. I have some success in directional strategies too, but holding period is between 1-5 days.

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This can happen to you. You may be next if you are day trading using Technical Analysis. If even 1 person benefits from this , I will be more than happy.

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If it makes you feel good, I have have lost much more than that in a day :wink: plenty of times.

Enjoy :smiley:

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The price series plotted on a chart (indexed to 100) tells me the stock is in a downtrend as per the classic Dow theory of TA (series of lower lows and lower highs). :slight_smile:

image

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99% make money in investing? Where did you get this stat from?

Just buy index and hold for 5 years. Take any 5 years. Even if you had bought at the highest level within next 5 years you will get a new ATH.

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That doesn’t mean you make real returns (greater than inflation).

That still doesn’t say 99% make money in investing. Please verify facts before you quote them.

Who is even speaking about real returns here? With trading do we speak about real returns?
And as a matter of fact, nifty beats inflation.

This is my opinion. But now that I think about it, I think I was wrong. Sorry Sir. Actually 99.99% of them make money in investing. :love_you_gesture:

The words “I think” and “my opinion” says it all. Please don’t pass them on as facts.

In trading we don’t talk (generally speaking) real returns because trading in not for wealth creation. It is for income gneration. Investing is for wealth creation thus real returns is a must.

This discussion about trading vs investing is funny. I cannot say which is better as both have their pros and cons. Its all about which suits you. I do both. I’m a full time trader (trading to pay bills type) and MF investor (I’m also a MFD but that income is not big enough for me to not depend on trading income). For anyone interested I’m an option buyer.

I’m not going to honour this discussion by sending more replies. This is my last one.

All the best. Have a great life.

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Will you take a medicine that kills 9 out of 10 those who take it?

Will you ride an aeroplane model that gets crashed 9 out of 10 times ?

Will you lend money to a person who has cheats 9 out of his lenders?

No.

But when it comes to FNO and day trading , Greed takes over and switches off Rational mind. In FNO and day trading 9/10 lose money and the 1 who doesn’t loses makes only peanuts. But still retail traders love it.

Why this happens? Why traders using Technical Analysis enter FNO?

The answer is simple : Dunning-Kruger effect which is a cognitive bias in which people with limited or no competence significantly overestimate their abilities.

If you think you will be not part of 9 out of 10 but will be in top 1% you are victim of Dunning-Kruger effect.

IMG_20240518_113515

@apple
Not only trading, with anything that is worth competing in, you will find that only 5-10% (often lesser) make it good. Almost any business. Rest should find their own area of expertise instead of complaining and wallowing…

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You can’t compare Trading via Technical Analysis to any other vocation because prices are random and random data can’t be used to predict anything. Technical Analysts are like ancient Chinese who threw cattle bones and then found patterns on them and based on them made decisions like whether to start a war or not. Children see patterns like humans, elephants, birds in clouds. Technical Analysts see Support, Resistance, Crossover, Cup and Handles.

Singing, Surgery, Carpentry, Painting all are skills that can be acquired . Technical Analysis is like throwing bones or seeing elephants in clouds.

You can’t, but I can.
Besides- I am talking of trading as a whole, stop being obsessed with TA in isolation :sweat_smile:

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Read about Dunning-Kruger effect.

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