Issues of smallcase


#1

What are the pros & cons of small case?
I read that these Holdings get added to regular equity Holdings so it’s not possible to view them separately.
Is this true? What are other such issues?


Small case screener permissions
#2

The holding will be reflected in your CDSL account. However in Kite you can do a filter “smallcase” from drop down to see the shares information.

Your best bet would be to check directly in www.smallcase.com website. It does missing couple of analysis indicators, but overall gives you good snapshot of investment value.

Pros:

  1. Invest based on my prefer sector or strategy.
  2. You don’t have to invest efforts for analysis of a particular stock.
  3. SIP facility and re-balance update

So far I don’t see any cons based on my scenario.

Hope this helps.

Thanks
Naveen


#3

Pros:

  1. Some of the Predefined SmallCases are very good and are comparable with Top performing MF Schemes
  2. Good view of your PnL through smallcase site

cons:

  1. Since smallcase holdings are just logically seperated in Kite Holding , if one someone sells stock bought through smallcase through kite then PnL of SmallCase would go for a toss …so when buying is allowed though smallcase only selling should be restricted through smallcase only.
  2. SIP in small case is just an intimation we have to place the order manually on SIP date by confirming it
  3. smallcase can not be set for single stock

Smallcase Screener Cons:

  1. SmallCase screener is only for NSE data
  2. predefined filter limits in screener are some times misleading
  3. screener export to excel is still only for current page and not the entire screened list

#4

Hi @Kishor_Chaudhari

Thanks for noting these down - wanted to clarify some of the ‘cons’ here :slight_smile:

cons:

  • Since smallcase holdings are just logically seperated in Kite Holding , if one someone sells stock bought through smallcase through kite then PnL of SmallCase would go for a toss …so when buying is allowed though smallcase only selling should be restricted through smallcase only. - Yes, ideally, but since these are part of your Holdings/demat account - it will be shown on Kite, the filter on the Kite Holdings page helps you separate the two
  • SIP in small case is just an intimation we have to place the order manually on SIP date by confirming it - Yup, we don’t have permissions to place automatic orders, :frowning:
  • smallcase can not be set for single stock - a smallcase is a portfolio (so more than 1 stock at the least) :smiley:

Smallcase Screener Cons:

  • SmallCase screener is only for NSE data - Yup, this is true
  • predefined filter limits in screener are some times misleading - We have updated the filter limits to show min max now
  • screener export to excel is still only for current page and not the entire screened list - This also has an update where you can export more than just 1 page results

#5

please mention update date for Share holding data. we will be able know when it was updated. whether it is latest Qtr or not.

Especially after completion of Qtr.


#6

Why small case screener need permissions to see my holdings and portfolio position? Can I use it just as screener by just logging in through the kite.
image


#7

yes, you can use it. its free for basic features and some features are additional and locked u can unlock and use it for the trail for 14 days after that it’s just flat 100 per month for go premium.


#8

I doesn’t allow without permissions.


#9

On screener, once you have narrowed down on a set of stocks, you can add them to a smallcase from screener itself and then invest instantly. These permissions are taken in order to enable this.


#10

Hello I am unable to login to smallcase and its screener any help is appreciated.


#11

@YV7459

Have you tried contacting their customer support - support@smallcase.com


#12

Hi YV7459,

Would you let us know what is the issue that you are facing, so that we can check it out?
However please check if the smallcase cookies / auth.smallcase.com are blocked in your browser - if yes, please allow it and you should be able to login without hassles.

You can either email to support@smallcase.com or can initiate a chat from our help section as well. Here is the link to tickertape screener > https://www.tickertape.in/screener


#13

Pros:
A single portal to manage Core & Satellite investing, themed/sectoral/strategic investing

Cons:
–NO After Market Order (AMO) support. (You can invest/rebalance/exit a smallcase only during market hours)
–HIGHER Total Expense Ratio (TER) ( For every SIP, you must shell out a flat fee + taxes in addition to the DP charges, STT etc. Also, one must buy the smallcase again if the smallcase was totally exited due to some reason)
–NO clear idea behind the research team involved and whether the stocks included based on the rationale behind the strategy adopted was correct. (You must blindly believe in an idea/strategy/sector relying on the smallcase research team expertise which can go wrong)
–NO support to rebalance all of your smallcase portfolios at once. (you may happen to sell and buy the same stocks in different smallcases as an intraday trader incurring a loss. Also, the rebalancing creates churn, as well as a tax liability.)
–NO clear idea on the RISK metric attributed to a smallcase (There are many moderate risk smallcases having negative returns as much as 40-50%. Also, diversification is limited which increases the overall risk. Buying time and rebalancing times are other factors increasing the risk)
–NO proven track record of the past (Smallcase statistics are mostly based on the recent bull run market until 2018)
–TOTAL Investment amount per SIP is very high when compared to other modes of equities investments like ETFs, Index Funds, Mutual Funds etc.

It would be really great if Zerodha integrates the basic concept of smallcase (monthly sip in stocks) into their existing portal.
Ideally, smallcase should focus on educating the people on the different methodologies of stock investing and help them curate their own portfolio based on these themes rather than making people to blindly invest in a set of stocks expecting great return based on some past statistics…


#14

Hi Balaji!

Thank you for checking our smallcases. :slight_smile: Addressing the Cons in order.

  • Yes. We are in the works of having AMO orders with smallcases too which will go live in the coming months.
  • There is no fee for SIP on Normal smallcases. We charge a minimum of Rs.50+9 of every SIP only 4 smallcases in total > for the All Weather Investing and for 3 Smart Beta smallcases. For all the other smallcases, no charges at all for SIP / rebalancing / invest more / manage / exit. However the standard Zerodha charges would apply as usual.
  • We have an in-house research team who creates these smallcases. The team consists of professionals from reputed colleges like IIT and have relevant experience of doing the same thing for big institutional clients with global investment firms like Nomura and Reuters. Having said that, the stocks for the smallcases are chosen objectively based on the model criteria with advanced filters and algos. If you’d like to have the model criteria for 3-4 of the smallcases, we can share it with you for sure. Please write to us at support@smallcase.com for the same, so that we can share it. We make sure to have the maximum transparency with our users.
  • That’s correct. We got that how it helps in saving the DP charges and taxes. This is something we are working on to have in smallcases in the near future. However at anytime you’d have the option to edit your rebalance update in which you can stop a stock from selling it.
  • So the negative returns for some of the smallcases are with the last 1 year in which we have seen more volatility in the markets. The Nifty Mid Cap is still in -12% loss. Since smallcases were exposed mostly to Mid cap stocks, this gets affected too. Which is why we have introduced the All Weather Investing and Smart Beta smallcases for stability and with more diversification respectively.
  • All the returns that we shows are the real historical returns of the stocks present in the smallcase which includes the rebalance updates as well as the losses incurred. For most of our smallcases, we have the past 4 years performance available on the platform. For the All Weather Investing and Smart Beta smallcases you can view the past 11Y and 10Y returns respectively.
  • That is right. Which is why we have changed the SIP logic last week in which you can invest as low as Rs.5000 for almost all of the smallcases except for very few smalllcase which might have the SIP amount of around Rs.7000 based on the high cost smallcases :slight_smile:
  • As part of Tickertape, We have the educational blog > https://learn.tickertape.in/ in which one can learn the below concepts with in depth knowledge. Also we are working on to have more educational video contents.


#15

Hi @Gowri-from-smallcase,

  • Thanks for assuring AMO order support. Please bring this feature at the earliest as it is the need of the hour for many.
  • Why is there a SIP fee for AWI & beta small cases? If I do a weekly SIP on these small cases, it would easily cost me around 1000 rupees per month which is way too high considering the returns from these small cases. Please remove the SIP fee for AWI & Beta smallcases as well.
  • Please provide a link beside each small to view the model criteria employed so that the smallcase users can make informed decisions based on the model criteria.
  • While doing rebalance updates, It would be difficult to cross-check all the small cases and edit each smallcase to avoid redundant buying/selling of the same share. So, please introduce a ‘Rebalance All’ feature to mitigate this issue.
  • In addition to existing risk levels (high, moderate, low), please introduce additional levels of risk (such as moderately high, moderately low similar to mutual fund riskometer) for better categorisation of smallcases
  • Thanks for adjusting the SIP logic to invest as low as 5K. Also please introduce ‘Conditional SIP’ or ‘Smart SIP’ option to invest more in a portfolio based on given criteria (e.g buy BANKING Tracker when BANK NIFTY is lower than value X, etc)
  • Thanks for providing the link for LearnbyTickertape (never saw a reference to it in the smallcase website though). However, it is generic and related more to ‘Tickertape’ and needs to be enhanced with more content with respect to ‘smallcase’. For example, if an investor wants to create a portfolio based on the ‘can slim’ strategy, he/she should be first able to understand this strategy before actual investing. There should be separate modules on topics such as ‘Value Investing’, ‘Strategic Investing’ etc.
  • Past returns should not be the sole criteria for investing. Please provide an explicit disclaimer under each smallcase that investments on smallcases are subjected to market risks. (Many of my friends who have invested in smallcases during 2018 (lured by the past returns) are still lamenting about smallcases because of the losses incurred even though it is obvious that equity investments are always subjected to market risks…)

#16

Hi Balaji,

  • Got that. We are working on the same. Though can’t commit on the exact time line as of now. But this will be incorporated in the coming months for sure.
  • For the thematic/model-based/sectoral smallcases, the objective of our research is to select & weight stocks that fit a particular theme - the returns would depend on how that theme performs. For the All Weather & Smart Beta smallcases, the role of the research becomes important in terms of how the constituents are selected & weighted. Hence, there’s more responsibility on our research to ensure the constituents are chosen & updated correctly, so a recurring fee is charged.
  • Noted. We’ll add this to our suggestions list and pass this on the team as well. Though if you wish to have the model criteria for few smallcases, you can write to us at support@smallcase.com and we’d be happy to send it to you.
  • Yes, as mentioned this is also in our roadmap for smallcases.
  • Got that. We’ll add this too in our suggestions and pass it on to the team.
  • As of now, this is something out of the scope of what we are offering. Nonetheless, let me put a word on this as well.
  • For most of the smallcases, we have the detailed blog on how and why these smallcases were made in our blog.smallcase.com > smallcase rationales Though there aren’t any blogs for Strategic Investing yet I am afraid. We will make a note of it and try to add a blog on the same. Thanks for the suggestions.
  • Of course yes, The same has been included in our disclosures under smallcase.com

#17

Hi Gowri,
Thanks for your reply. Please find below my comment on the SIP fee .

  • If the ‘All Weather’ & ‘Smart Beta’ smallcases demand greater research and higher responsibility for maintenance, then I would suggest adopting a flat fee for all these 4 smallcases (either monthly or yearly) as against the flat fee for each SIP. It is highly unlikely to get the return on investment if anyone opts for a weekly SIP on these 4 smallcases.
    (Could you please do a backtest for the above scenario i.e investing in weekly SIP for AWI & SmartBeta smallcases and post the NETT P&L for these 4 smallcases in the last 3 months (including all the other charges like DP charges, STT etc along with the smallcase fees and taxes)