Yes, you’ll have to pay both a margin penalty for the shortfall in margins and as you didn’t have sufficient funds in your account there will be interest charged as well.
My broker charged me the both . i.e. penalty and interest . with GST .
But . Later . After 1 week . the broker reimbursed the penalty Saying , the exchange did not charge the penalty to the client .
How is this possible ?
You can check with your broker. Margin penalty will be charged after few days by exchange, not on same day.
How is invoice a proof that the penalty is deposited with the exchange?
If i raise a invoice of 1Lakh on someone does it mean am giving it to another party?
If i raise a ticket, can I get acknowledgment for the same along with the calculations?
I have never allowed my trading account to go negative overnight. In fact I make sure I keep at least 10lakhs in the account at the end of the day. Sometimes this falls to as as low at 2 lakhs the next morning, but it has never gone negative. Now I see 23k penalty has been imposed for a particular day. If I have actually fallen short then its fine, I should be penalized. But then how do I verify?
@siva @Nakul
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I would like to know how it can be confirmed that peak margin penalty has been charged by the exchange for my trading account for a particular trading day.
That is GST invoice right, believe that can’t be a fake one.
NSE share penalty file post 5 trading days and we post on ledger, you can check on ledger.
Please don’t get me wrong. I am in no way accusing you of any wrong doing.
I totally agree, it cant be a fake one. You are not getting my point. Just because there is an invoice raised by you, that doesn’t necessarily mean the amount is paid to the exchange. Invoice can be raised for multiple purposes. Even for brokerage you raise an invoice. Does that mean you are paying the brokerage collected by you to someone?
All that I am asking is the correspondence you get for the penalty paid by you on my behalf to the exchange.
This is exactly what I was asking for. The file shared by NSE where it specifically mentions my client ID and the penalty payable.
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That file can be faked, anyone can show one file with your name and ID and penalty, GST is genuine. @Nakul how to verify with that gst invoice?
That way everything can be faked. Invoice can be faked too. Invoice can be reversed too by passing credit note.
If i am trusting zerodha, i believe the proof that they send to be genuine.
I can fake my bank accounts and upload it for opening zerodha account. I can fake my income tax return too. Hope you know what are the consequences of faking documents. But there is some trust that we maintain. Do not put the doubt in our mind that brokers can fake documents and send it to us, irrespective of who the broker is.
My point is we post it on ledger if any penalty is levied, people ask proof and for that one can refer invoice.
Just deleted few other replies and adding it here.
So, our invoice can be considered as proof, while filing taxes you can submit that and auditor can audit it thus proving the genuinity of GST invoice, it has necessary data points on it. Guess that should help.
I downloaded the invoice from Console. To verify the same, I checked the GST portal and it is asking for CPIN and it is not available in the invoice. Can anyone let us know the CPIN?
@Nakul, @siva : can someone please answer this question?
@Nakul, @siva: Gentle reminder.
@VenuMadhav : Tagging you as my above question was not answered.
Another question. Can you please also share the screenshot or the time period when the margin exceeded my funds available. I was charged short margin penalty on Jun 14th, 2021.
You are still not getting my point. I know it is a proof for the auditor. I am myself a practicing chartered Accountant. So I know its allowed to be claimed as my expense. Invoice is the proof for me to claim the expense.
I understand all of this. My question remains the same. What is the proof that you have paid the same to the exchange.
Since you are not able to understand my question let me give you an example.
I file returns for the clients. Now lets say income tax liability is Rs.10000 and my charges are 3000. I give them an invoice of 3k plus GST. And for Rs.10000 I give give them the acknowledgement I get from income tax website after paying the tax.
If I raise an invoice of 13k directly to client can that be proof that I have paid income tax on his behalf?
Now please do not tell me that I can send a fake acknowledgement from Income tax site. I know the consequences of doing such a thing.
So now back to all that I was asking for. Where is the proof that you have paid the said amount of penalty to the exchange on my behalf?
Is it possible to get the calculation of penalty at least. ?
Because I just checked my ledger balance for the day penalty was imposed. Its in excess of 20L. So now I really wanna know how is it calculated.
Do I have to raise a ticket or inbox?
@siva @Nakul
Yeah, please create ticket.
Ticket Raised #20210916994931.
Kindly look into the same because I know the answer which I will get from support staff wont be satisfactory.
I have got the response from the support team. Now the clarification is that it isn’t short margin penalty, but its peak margin penalty. So the narration posted in the ledger is wrong which gave rise to all the confusion.
kindly look into the changing this in the ledger so that at least others do not have same confusion.
I would want few more clarification so that such penalties are not imposed in future:
- The peak margin occurred intraday only because of the intraday volatility. In one of my earlier query, I was clearly told penalty will not be imposed if its only because of intra day volatility. I didn’t take any new position nor did I close any hedged position. (not able to find that post where you specifically mentioned it)
- Where will I get to know my intra day margin utilized. So i have to blindly trust the calculations? For short margin penalty I can rely on the margin statement at least. For peak margin penalty whats the document supporting the same.
- How can I avoid such penalties in future. I am already maintaining 5 percent excess cash in the ledger. Looks like thats not enough. I will have huge penalty yesterday too. At least after this I know what should be avoided.
@nithin I would really appreciate, if you could look into my query, because I didn’t get an answer. I do not know whom else to tag. My last resort.
If you have not read the above posts, just to clarify I am not accusing of any wrong doing. I just want to know why is it not possible to get acknowledgement for the penalty paid to the exchange.