Positions in Kite shows P&L that does not include the exact or approximate charges/fees etc.
So, even though you may see a profit, the charges could be high and you could be in big loss !!
For ex, what you may see is this in positions in Kite :
Is it not incorrect to show profit in Positions when there is actually a loss ? Please can @zerodha fix this immediately? How many new traders are aware of this?
New traders and even experienced traders should raise their voice here please. @SEBI should come up with strict guidelines on how these should be displayed.
Also, to see the real charges in console we have to wait for one day (or late midnight). So, we can not update the trading journals at the market close factoring in the charges. Also, net profit including charges help us to manage the risks (maximum loss per trade and day etc).
These are basic things that should be taken care. Wonder why this was not already dealt with !
I hope this thread wont be unlisted.
A related issue that I faced: Securities Transaction Tax is not shown on a per-trade or per-scrip basis. Instead, only the sum of STT paid each day is shown in that day’s account statements. This is a serious issue when it comes to tax filing, because the tax code explicitly prohibits us from showing STT as an expense. Which means: for each (buy, sell) pair of trades that we make, we are supposed to discount the STT on either leg of the pair, when computing our tax liability. Since Zerodha does not give us the trade-wise break-up of STT paid, it is impossible for us to do this if we do two or more transactions on a day.
The Zerodha account statement has fine print which says that detailed list of charges will be given to us on request. I made this request once, and it took quite a few days (couple of weeks?) for the detailed list to come by email. Since this (requesting for breakup of charges for each day that I buy/sell something) didn’t look scalable, I have resigned myself to doing at most one transaction on Zerodha per day. This is the only way I can be sure that I will know the exact STT paid on each transaction, when it comes to computing taxes. I am fine with this, since I can adjust my trading strategy to fit this. Nonetheless, this is a place where Zerodha can improve.
Yeah, this is on our list of things to do, also this is a feature.
At a personal level with some trading experience I would say it is the responsibility of traders to be aware of all charges, to understand market dynamics, should know upfront about any events, what will happen if I place market orders, while trading options what are the risks, and much more. Only when we take blame for our mistakes and try correcting them we will succeed in markets in the long run, no point of passing blame on others, markets, brokers regulators etc because we are dealing with our own hard earned money. We all makes mistakes initially and that is part of the game but we should correct them and move ahead. Just my two cents as a fellow trader/forum participant.
Now as employee of Zerodha, yes this is in our list of things to do, we do this for commodity but for equity earlier as each state has different stamp duty we could not able to do, but now as stamp duty is also normalized we should able to do, this is delayed because of so many regulatory changes in last year and current covid situation.
Can take the turnover and put on calculator to know charges to a close approximation, also as a thumb rule one can know charges upfront say for ex a lakh turnover and estimate accordingly.
This is different, and very soon we will be providing tradewise/ scrip wise charges also on console, for now if you need those tradewise charges you can create a ticket as we have those details in backend. @Nakul
I did raise this kind of ticket once, but the reply took some time coming (as I said in my earlier comment). And this requires keeping track of more documents for each day that I transact. I figured that raising a ticket for each day that I transact, and then waiting in suspense for the response is too much of a hassle.For now I have settled on doing at most one trade per day, till the reporting improves to a point that it will contain the per-trade/per-scrip STT information.
Hey, this is unnecessary. You haven’t done your homework well. The profit you get is without taxes and commissions. That’s how things are. You get a contract note later detailing the charges. Isn’t that beautiful?
So, you don’t need to get alarmed and call sebi.
You ll get used to it. Just hang a little longer.
Hey, even if there are positions reflecting with deductions, how is it going to help much?
What are you talking about ? If trading is your business income then you are already allowed to deduct STT as expenses along with brokerage and all other charges/taxes.
This comes as a huge surprise to me. Not that the “Positions” or “Holdings” on Kite don’t show the “REAL” P&L, but this
It’s not that hard actually to figure out the actual P&L. You can see how the Brokerage Calculator works and copy the same formulas (also available here) into an Excel sheet.
Just put these formulas in your Journal (Google Sheets or Excel) and it’ll do the magic every time you log in your trades.
Also, if it helps I’m willing to share my Trade Journal Template (it’s on Google Sheets) if there are enough takers for it.
P.S - my journal (taxes & fee calculations) is designed for Equity delivery trades only because that’s my thing .
For each buy/sell transaction on equity delivery, there is a standard STT charge applied and the formula is available even on Zerodha brokerage calculator. A trader just needs to multiply buy/sell value with the STT charges to arrive at STT per day.
No need to go through contract notes.
Charges can be estimated according to your capital even before taking a trade. It is not a high priority for traders.
To have a definitive value for the STT so that I don’t mess up my tax computation
To have an official document to show in support of my STT computation if/when the IT department asks for it years down the line
The Zerodha brokerage calculator, while being very useful to get an estimate of the charges involved in a transaction on the day that we check, helps with neither of the above.
The only alternative I have now is to raise a ticket for each day that I did more than one trade, and wait for a couple of weeks for the response to arrive.
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