I have been charges penalty but as per sebi broker is liable and not the customer
| NSE F&O short-margin penalty for date 2022-06-02 | 2022-06-10 | 90215.04 |
|---|---|---|
| NSE F&O short-margin penalty for date 2022-06-09 | 2022-06-17 | 46816.59 |
| NSE F&O short-margin penalty for date 2022-06-13 | 2022-06-21 | 2513.47 |
This is around 139545 rs.
Client ID PA2030 Can you look into this and get be refund for the same.
@MohammedFaisal @Nithin, has something changed with the way margin is being reported/collected at EOD at Zerodha? Not talking about the rule change effective May 2023 (where it started being based on BOD basis) but more recently at Zerodha itself.
For two Zerodha accounts, Iāve been charged CCO margin shortfall penalty, even though for both:
a) thereās plenty of EOD excess funds available
b) itās mentioned in the Margin Statement that the CCO required has been collected as well
In the first account, Iād even made a withdrawal that day, so if there were no funds available, how would have that withdrawal request gone through? Also, the next day (10th Feb, Saturday holiday), Iād transferred some amount (more than CCO) back to my Zerodha account, and one has T+1 day for any CCO shortfall, so another reason why there should have been no penalty.
Tickets:
#20240220371926
#20240220474308
Created these tickets few days back, but Iām getting different responses on each of them, which makes it seem your Customer Support themselves donāt have much idea about this & are just trying to close the ticket in some way possible. Iām also having to correct them.
Just want some clarity or refund if this is some error, which is what this looks likeā¦
There have been no changes; we continue to report the client margin based on the beginning-of-day (BOD) margin parameters.
On the specific day in question, the EOD margins charged (as per the EOD parameter) were lower than the BOD parameter margins for both of your accounts. This indicates that the margin required to maintain the positions decreased by the end of the day, which is not the usual case. The statement sent to you reflected the actual EOD margin required for the positions. However, according to the BOD parameters, the margins were higher, based on which the reporting was done, and the shortfall was reported.
Although there was a Consolidated Crystallised Obligation Collected (CCO) margin shortfall in your account, it did not appear in the margin statement due to the display of lower EOD margins.
The statement should show the margin that is required to be reported and any shortfall if present. We will check why it did not show and get this fixed.
Thank you for reporting this.
Weāll also update you on the ticket created.
Thanks.
But the CCO shortfall amount is already mentioned in the both the accountās statements. Could you clarify this as well:
a) Why is the shortfall penalty charged different for both accounts?
For #20240220371926 , itās 1% of CCO + 18% GST, whereas for #20240220474308, itās 0.5% of CCO + 18 % GST.
As per this Zerodha article, it should be the same for both (0.5%).
b) Secondly, what about this?
As the questions were account-specific, we have explained them on the call and hope we have resolved your queries.
Hi Zerodha team, can you please clarify what how charging extra buffer margin works?
Iām noticing much higher EOD margin requirements on Friday than would be anticipated by market volatility alone, not sure which scrip/index in my f&o portfolio caused it, but if it is a buffer margin applied by Zerodha, then is there a penalty for not able to bring it or is one risking position close?
Also, when you say that M2M losses need to be brought by T+1 11:59 PM, then for any losses on Friday, do they need to be brought in by Saturday 11:59 or Monday 11:59?
Same issue. Margin requirements are changing every alternate day.
Reduce margins on one day to free up available margins and let a user take trades. Increase it the next day and make money squaring off positions/ earn delayed payment charges. Rinse and repeat. Happened a third time with me. +1L to -7L overnight. No matter which logic the exchanges/ CC are using, I donāt understand how it is changing every alternate day.
This weekās sequence for me (Eod-Bod):
Mon-Tue: +5L to -8L
Tue-Wed: +1L to +11L
Wed-Thu: +2L to -11L
Thu-Fri: weekly positions expired, so margins freed
Fri-Sat: +1L to -7L
@nithin I think a much deeper info w.r.t. margin blockage needs to be displayed on the interface.
Your design team needs to see exactly how to solve for this.
This is a real need of the hour. Right now we are running blind on margin blockage and its fluctuations when we create multiple positions.
Interestingly, none of my margin statements show a shortfall this week, contrary to whatās being displayed on kite as funds statement every other morning. Is zerodha managing margin shortfall in the reporting to avoid the penalty that SEBI has imposed on the broker if they fail to collect 100% margins from clients?
And the fact that these margin statements are being sent as late as by 4pm on the next trading day, is a matter for another discussion.
We are not charging any extra buffer margin since exchange changed the margin calculation based on bod margin.
Margins are charged based only on exchange delivered span files.
You have to bring the funds before 9 am on Monday, otherwise your position will be squared off due to margin shortfall which leads to peak margin penalty.
Margins are charged from exchange based on overall portfolio. Exchange wont give margins based on individual positions. So it is not possible from brokers end also to show margins on individual positions.
I have also huge margin short fall , its bery hig on saturday morning i open kite it showinh 8 lakhs - shortfall , what is this
Hi @Ragavendran_M ,
firstly thanks for your reply.
But I must say that my weekend has been spoilt by this event and I still donāt have any believable answers. While the election week itself gave enough profits for me, but it was shocking to see a -23 L as Funds balance on Friday night, whereas till Friday 3:30 PM it was all positive. Iāve been scrambling to arrange funds from all over this morning but Iām afraid it wonāt be enough to fill the -23 L bucket. And most of this -23L is coming from increased margin requirements. Iāve been trading long enough to say that this increase is not normal based on the volatility and price increases of Friday, at max I was expecting -3L.
Similar to what @asen mentioned, the margin statement that I even received today afternoon is not showing any margin shortfall. So, how to explain the discrepancy between the Funds page and the margin statement?
I really trusted Zerodha but this time it is getting a bit too much to put blind trust anymore. My theory also is that this way we are being pushed towards over-trading by giving extra margin and then double brokerage or Call+trade charges+penalty due to lower margin.
And while we are at the point of margin, there is another big pain point of unavailable margin where after selling say a Future (say Banknifty Futures), Iām not able to sell OTM PEs due to supposed lack of margin, but according to margin calculator I have enough margin. This issue is known to Zerodha support staff and they offer me a temporary margin so that I can execute the trade. But it is not possible to spend 15 minutes on a support call when I need to do this process multiple times per week. I tried at least one other discount broker and they did not have this issue.
thanks
This is actually ridiculous. You canāt just pass the buck on to exchange if you want to be a trusted broker.
I am sure you can read the span files and apply your own logic on it to create a pie chart of which position is blocking what percentage of margin. You do it in the basket order window anyway.
Where does this thing show up on the interface? Canāt you just provide a countdown timer towards the cutoff time for adding funds? Looks like you want people to bug you or remain in dark for such queries.
I am not sure if I can spoon-feed you. I can only provide you a feedback. Itās on you whether to work on it or else, someone else will do it for sure someday.
For account specific query you can create a ticket or DM your client id. Will check and let you know what exactly happened.
We receive the margin values from the exchange, in response, we report the available margin in the client account. The available funds comprise the ledger balance, 80% of the delivery sale credit, and the collateral margin. If the available margin is less than the required Peak/EOD margin, the exchanges impose a penalty on the shortfall. The exchanges have an alert system in place in case a broker reports an incorrect available margin. So, there is no such thing as managing shortfall by reporting more available margins. 
The margin displayed on Kite in the morning can change based on the updated margins we receive from the exchange, and the margin value may or may not match the previous dayās EOD margin shown in the Ledger/margin statement.
Please raise a ticket here with more details and DM me the ticket number. We will check it and respond.
Let me attempt to clear your confusion.
When peak margins were implemented, the clearing corps would refresh margins whenever there was a new SPAN file (there are 5 SPAN files in a day) and the refreshed margins would be labeled āupfront marginsā that a broker was mandated to collect, a regulation to which compliance was impossible.
Iāll explain with an example. If the margins for 1 lot of Nifty was Rs.1.23L in the morning, brokers would allow clients to take this position subject to availability of 1.23L, letās assume the client had 1.25L. Now assume that post the clients taking positions, the margins went up on account of volatility (say it went to 1.31L), in such a case upfront margins would be considered as 1.31L and if the shortfall of 6k would be qualified as short collection on which penalty would be charged.
Since no broker could account for volatility and charge margins for the entire day in advance, after multiple rounds of consultation, SEBI made a change in the rule that said that for all positions, the peak margins for the sake of margin collection and for calculating shortfall will be done basis the Beginning of the day (BoD) SPAN parameters. Note, that this is only for the sake of broker margin collection and reporting. If a broker fails in collecting margins as per these, then penalty is charged.
However, the clearing corporation cannot charge margin in real time based on BoD params, theyāll have to do so as per the prevailing risk, so they charge margins in real time as per the prevailing span parameters (1 of the 5 SPAN files that is in use). The margins that get charged on your ledger and that also reflect on your margin statement at the end of the day will be the higher of the margins as per BOD/real margins as per EOD parameters. This is why itās possible that you saw higher margins charged on your ledger compared to what you were seeing on Kite. While you may not be subject to margin penalty on Friday , the EOD margins that you see on Kite on Friday night, will most likely become the BOD margins for you on Monday morning, which is why itās essential to fund the account to avoid position being square off on Monday.
