Retail traders and investors watch out - Are brokers like Zerodha counter trading?


#43

Hai Good evening
I definitely agree to your comments , if u are moving in profit positions they will have counter trade in huge numbers to bring down our profits
Soft ware can clearly notify the loading on particular stocks - Number game all in totality

This has happened to me many times
If u are bold enough to with hold stocks till it sustains u can make small profits
I would request all to have decent stop loss based on days valatality , if not u will lose your hard earned money
Winning intraday trades is challenging for all traders
Best option is price action startergy , with SMA 5 and SMA 20 cross over , with supertrend and
Vertex indicator is good to identify the movement of stocks specially in intraday trading
U should have momentary action entry / exit with stop loss to have safety on your intra day trading startergy,


#44

Big brokers would know the overall positions of traders on their brokerage for all securities eg. say the nifty or BNF. This information AFAIK is not available to the general public. As retail generally loses… positions could possibly be taken counter to this.

As most brokers have their own prop trading desks, I wonder if knowledge of client positions are used for an edge in trading. @nithin


#45

We have to do all - learn about markets, investing, trading and ask questions, raise concerns. It’s like India building toilets as well as doing marse mission & going for bullet train !
Trust the God but lock the car. ( And test the code, ask questions, raise questions, be curious) !


#46

This is another possibility and can have serious implications.
Broker can analyse various data related to orders, stop losses, funds available (which can indicate if traders would take delivery or forced to square off) and so on in real time.
Also, brokers have insight into p&l of successful traders and can mirror their trades. Or, sell these data or give real time access to big guys. So many possibilities.
Are there SEBI guidelines, rules around these as well? Even if they are not sure if
there is monitoring & enforcement. If SEBI is effective, why vakrangee etc stock manipulation could happen?
So, there is lot possible but weather brokers like zerodha, icicidirect etc if and are doing it is a big question.


#47

Let’s say all the brokers in India sell client trades and do counter trading. Would you stop trading??

If you have so much suspicious mind then why don’t you become NSE broker yourself so that no one can see your pnl.


#48

I also think so because one month back when zerodha faced problem in sell orders, that day most stocks went up, before that they were bleeding. Most retail traders trade by creating long position and in counter short position can be created.


#49

If it is sure all brokers are doing, then none of the retail traders should trade unless they are lucky to be still making money.

Bigger the broker, better it is placed at making use of client data. It’s like Google giving services almost free so that they have so much data which is a goldmine.


#50

You don’t need to be a brokerage firm to know where what orders are placed. Subscribing to tick by tick data feed shows all data points on the exchange and all changes that happens. Huge amounts of data and can be really used only if you have programming skills.


#51

If only it was as simple as that. Overall our clients lose more to STT , other govt charges +impact cost than they do to the markets. So taking positions against these will just mean more charges and impact cost. Also most retail buy options, so going against them would mean shorting options. If retail is wrong, limited profits - but whenever right unlimited losses. This doesn’t make any sense at all especially when every trade is coming with huge costs in terms of taxes and impact.

But like I said earlier, if there was a way to execute these trades by being counter to every client trade without having to pay taxes, impact cost, etc (like in CFD platforms, darkpools in the US, forex trading, etc) then maybe it does - but only until a black swan event hits you.

The recent one which shut down many CFD and forex trading platforms was when swiss franc was unpegged.


#52

Then it must be really difficult to make profit in the derivatives market in US ? And why don’t they execute the orders like india does when they know dark pool exist ?


#53

@nithin can u tell us any one advantage u have as broker you are getting during trading while which is not during those time when you was only a trader not by client data or any client related data but in general ?


#54

8/10 people will not understand what you are talking about.

Since this is a very sensitive topic for discussion, the ones who understand will have to pretend not to understand you.

This is like “No Country for Intelligent People”.

Pretend to be a naive and live like the rest of us and you will be very much happy about the things around you.


#55

Not saying anything about zerodha doing it.

Not possible humanly, but by computers! Tech is far more advanced today than what’s required to achieve this!


#56

That could be a very genuine case of short delivery. It happens. It has happened to me! Short delivery was relatively common. I have even had my shorted options, exercised. Some have given me more profits after exercise!

Reliance Money - Order IN PROCESS, remember? That could have been easy, instant money, for the broker!


#57

I think Zerodha can be trusted in such cases. They have some reputation to take care of.


#58

How does it matter who fills the trade. Your profit or losses are based on your trade and how the underlying moves. If a broker can offer you lower impact cost and tighter spread, it is actually better for the trader.


#59

We might not know but anyone who has deployed data mining & AI in between can make huge profits.
By anyone i mean anyone.

Read it somewhere-
It takes few crisis & calamities for people to accept NEW WORLD ORDER.


#60

SEBI has brought in a bunch of regulations in the last few years which today ensures that brokers don’t have any added advantage when trading. If you see in the last couple of years, a lot of prop trading firms using their own memberships have started shifting to other brokers by surrendering their membership.


#63

M sure this can happen cos info my nse is such advance and with smart People.There is something really phishing.


#64

Either you are living in fantasy world or you are very frustrated due huge loss in market