In our markets the ‘tail wags the dog’ with around 300:1 derivatives to cash mkt ratio. This heavy skew doesnt happen anywhere else in the world. Such a market with relatively poor cash mkt volumes needs some regulator protection (against manipulatons) to safeguard integrity of mkts… What good are ‘free mkts’ if its unfair to most. I’d prefer a not-so-free but fair(er) mkts anyday. I am not talking of abolishing ‘weekly expiries’, thats NOT Good (for me).
The regulator is now talking of cash market liquidity concerns. One way to improve cash market liquidity is by abolishing STT in the cash market (keep it in derivatives if its a MUST) That would make the market more resistant to index manipulations. I myself would have traded stocks much more if not for the high STT. If you want to enhance cash-market liquidity and improve overall market integrity, dont stifle short-term trading of stocks, simple!
I like a lot of your arguments, but in general I have largely seen strong pushbacks against derivatives trading by people who dont understand derivatives well enough (often due to lack of mental alacrity). This is fact.
Well, there is a difference though. Startups are a wealth and value building endevour, trading is not really. Ofc traders build wealth for exchanges, brokers, Govt and a few traders, but overall it is a zero-sum game in the end. I am somewhat mindful of this, and try to make donations where possible, unless I am in a lean period. I have heard some arguments that say traders are like bees that make the bee-hive (Stock Market), and that way add value, sure there is that. Some even deem it a sport, that adds entertainment - that is maybe dangerous
I am like - “Given that everyone has limited time/energy, cricketers who keep complaining that groundsmen often change the pitch conditions at each ground, will be better served by instead focussing on their own fitness and improving their ability to bowl/bat on varying pitches and weather conditions”
One doesn’t need to be a coach or a former professional cricketer to grasp this.
Even an amateur cricketer or a spectator can deduce this much.
A coach/former-cricketer/an active cricketer who has successfully been able to adapt to changing conditions, additionally will also be able to guide others on how to go about doing this. Maybe other successful traders on this forum with first-hand experience in recent markets can continue to chime-in (as a few have done on this thread) on the execution bit. i.e. how other less successful ones, can go beyond lamenting on things beyond their control/influence and venting-out their frustrations on this forum, to instead emulating successful traders.
Let me say that , Brokers can ask the SEBI to reduce the Stock option lot sizes to say like in USA ,100 shares per lot , so that liquidity will improve and also Small investors can hedge their holding stocks during downtrend , right now small investors are really helpless in this regard and also this will reduce the concentrated option trading happening in Nifty & Bank Nifty , its easy to manipulate or attack the concentrated trades like Piranhas do by the entities like Jane Street
Having sharpness on the battlefield and ‘tawking’ in polished English are two very different things. Markets reward decisiveness, not debate club credentials.
Arguing with trolls with lot of free time is useless. This guy literally sits on tradingqna and writes paragraphs all day long. He derails most of the discussions and makes it about him even if he has little experience on the said topic.
When the whole system is manipulated from top to bottom the retailers will keep on losing money. At this moment keeping the system clean from the blood suckers like JaneStreet is much needed than anything else. Majority of the retailers lost money due to the manipulation in the market. No matters how you plan and design your trading strategies bloody whales will suck your money by hitting sl. You can’t survive for a longer time when you are not offered a fair level of platform. At the end the knowledge and skills will be of no use. If SEBI bans options for retailers then they must also ban other betting apps, IPL, cigarettes, tobacco, wine and junk foods as well. For these unhealthy items Indian households lost billions every year for medical bills.
When SEBI has already exposed the dirty games why do you try to make the fun of retailers. Yes, it’s true that majority of the retailers lose due to their poor decision makings and hopes. But a section of smart traders also lose often due to the big money powers which is fixed most of the time. If you have been trading actively for the last five years you can realize how market was fixed at some points going against all rationals.
Hardly … I can make quick and confident decisions and they could be wrong in the long run.
A lot of newbies are probably decisive after studying some course.
Market rewards whatever it rewards and that can shift too.
When SEBI has issued a report saying your sl is targeted by a few big players.
But a section of smart traders also lose often due to the big money powers which is fixed most of the time.
How? Can you elaborate more on this? The majority of experienced yet rookie traders think anything that doesn’t go along with their strategy (with utility value - nought) is manipulation. There is no such thing as strategy. The earlier you know it, the less the probability of you blowing your account.
If you have been trading actively for the last five years
At some point, the number of days you are trading is of little significance, as experience is a highly misunderstood term floating around among intelligentsia and corporate pro***tutes. Doing the same thing for 5 years is not an experience. Practice makes permanent✅perfect❌
how market was fixed at some points going against all rationals
You might hate me for saying this, but you sound more like an investor relying on fundamentals than a trader navigating with bias
Trading is 90% about probabilistically engineering positive expectancy; the remaining 10% is risk management — defined by decisiveness, not hope
I must refrain from juggling with words , such behavior often creates a false sense of certainty. When I speak of decisiveness, I simply mean enabling a positive expectancy matrix.
That said, let’s be clear - in intraday trading, there is no “long run”. Your decisions either play out within the day or they don’t.
Hmmm… OK. It makes sense now.
Would have been better to have said “enabling a positive expectancy matrix” or “creating consistent positive EV” instead of “decisiveness”. Thanks for clarifying though.
Agreed with the original quote.
IIUC, the “long run” in this context, is the consistency in trading.
While an individual trade might have a positive result.
Based on the other comments you posted above,
i think you agree that
unless the approach/logic behind it is sound,
and unless the execution was calculated (and not emotional),
attempting to follow the same approach in future,
will lead to larger net losses in the long run.
Don’t approach the market,flow with it. I know this may sound esoteric, but in the short run, that’s exactly how the market works. It rewards adaptability, not rigid logic.
and unless the execution was calculated (and not emotional)
Yep, that part’s non-negotiable. Without calculated, emotionless execution, positive EV is just theory
Just 2–3 years ago, the Indian markets were exploring ways to broaden participation—introducing weekly expiries in stock options, taking an aggressive stance on commodities and currency derivatives.
But what we’ve witnessed instead is a steady rollback:
The currency F&O segment has been virtually killed.
Commodities lost their appeal after the introduction of steep margin requirements.
Weekly expiries for index being withdrawn, starting with the Bank Nifty, Nifty Midcap Select Index—and there are plans to extend this to all indices.
The question now is—where exactly are we heading as a market? Are we making participation simpler and deeper, or are we gradually pulling back from retail-led derivatives growth?
Can you elaborate more on this? The majority of experienced yet rookie traders think anything that doesn’t go along with their strategy (with utility value - nought) is manipulation. There is no such thing as strategy. The earlier you know it, the less the probability of you blowing your account.
