Too few working days for market

Yeah , many people have lost millions and gone bankrupt trading Crypto derivatives. I was watching a documentary ’ Trust No One: The Hunt for the Crypto King’ on netflix. There was forensic audit done on a crypto exchange and the reason of bankruptcy was found to be derivative trading in crypto. The exchange owner lost billions in cryptos leverage trade and he probably used the crypto assest as collateral( public money)

Market are subject to market risk. Its like Pal Bhar Mein Kaise Badalte Hain Rishte. :grin:

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@247NH You sound like this man :stuck_out_tongue:

Not only market risk but also Modi risks.
One fine day he will come on TV at 8 pm and say 'Mitron!!! Aaj Raat 12 baje se Crypto Band.':grin:

Its High impact news :joy: SL not hit , margin call , position liquidate , bankruptcy. It will be like mera chain wain sab ujda.

Not everyone trades lower TF’s. People trade 2 hours , 4 hours and daily TF.

Sorry to say but last 4hour means 2hour candlestick and smart money don’t trade using this, even high freq. trading algo software won’t be using analysis of 4hours for stock trading.

I should say reliable time frame is 15sec,1min,5min,15min,1h,1d,1w,1m for stock trading and for crypto and fx it would be 15sec,1min,5min,15min,1h,4h,1d,1w,1m rest of time frame is not good choice. And in multi time frame analysis you should use time frame adjacent to each other.

The multi time frame analysis could be as : -

scalp trade - 15sec,1min,5min or 1min ,5min, 15min
intraday trade - 5min,15min,1h or 15min,1h,4h(only apply to FX and crypto trading where market is open atleast 20hr a day).

swing trade - 1h,4h,1d
positonal trade or investment - 1d,1w,1m

Lower time frame is used for entry.

Note that we can use much lower time than entry time frame if there is wide candle , you can say it as wide spread candle.

After reading the question and other comments, I just can’t stop laughing myself. No offense to anyone or the questionnaire. I guess(just a guess) the questionnaire is a full time working professional and hence require weekends holidays and night time to trade.

coming to this topic, we have to treat trading also like a professional business/work, one needs time to prepare, analyze and relax after work. so for this I feel what ever timing and week offs and holidays are there currently should continue and this is more than enough.

I don’t understand why do you want 24/7 what will you do at night, trade or sleep? what will you do on festival, spend and enjoy with family or sit in front of system for trading.

keeping 24/7 will make you restless either as an investor or trader that one might feel he would have missed an opportunity at midnight or when you are in festival or week offs, your mind always will be on what is happening in market and would not be able to concentrate on your personal life. all these stuffs will make you unhealthy both physically/mentally. Without being mentally/physically available you cannot do anything in trading other than loosing your money.

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No timing change required neither 6th or 7th trading day…if something is additionally required is KERBS like we had earlier (18 years back) + post closing session in derivatives segment (both futures & options) + no dummy filters od 10%…it should be open even 1000%

I have no idea how people trade below 1 min and below time frame. There is crazy level of noise there. Noise reduces in higher TF such as 1 hr & daily. I have no idea how people can look at chart at short time and do high frequency trading. They would hardly even have time to keep a stoploss. Plus trading lower TF such as 5 mins is hell. You are just waiting looking at screen tied at one place and far worse in lower TF is that there is no way you can keep your eyes live off live p & l. Seeing live p&l is basically a mindfuck that’s where most stress comes from. That’s why I prefer 1 hour or higher TF with a tested strategy , money management and stp. It takes away lot of the stress and I get my time in hand.

Yeah trading lower TF below atleast below 30 with no tested strategy is hell only. Trading never really has to be like that way in first place. You can have a position open higher TF close the half at 1% takeprofit and bring STP the price at which position was initiated to break even and keep riding trend with other half. You don’t have to sit infront system all time.

If you right about your plan why would you seek for SL as being good and even better in technical analysis significantly means you can exit the trade on hand without using SL when you get wrong about the analysis and one thing is that SL hunt are probably the most valuable that smart money used to seek for being profitable If you been placing just below the wick of candle that is its logical spot to get out of the trade even you found you are right about technical analysis.

And you are saying that HTF with test strategy , but higher TF means you are having big SL. And RRR will be low significantly. If you will seek for 1:2 or 1:3 you will be stop out in most scenerio.
And test strategy means that they were right in past but its not gurantee that they will right in future as price action forming are not similar to past actions.

Even if you use concept of RPT, 1 or 2% loss from capital per trade , you would be not trading derivative at fund of 20k as risk on this fund per trade would be 400 and you are trading at 1hour or more means that you will be generally stop out in 30% or less in single candlesticks price retracement.

1hr 1d, 1w 1m… these are used by positional and Investors, me and all other day traders use mostly 5 min(earlier i used1,2 min). The higher the TF the higher the SL you have to keep. Higher SL means 2,3 wrong trade is enough to wipe out most of your capital. you need to be either HNI or very small retailer having few thousands to have a hig SL. Offcourse day trader has to sit all the day in front of system, that is how the life of a trader be, some sit half day some 1 or 2 trades and close the day and some like me sit entire day.

and Trading index I never take delivery its all intra and for me 5 min itself is hectic because the candle turns upside down multiple times in that 5 min.

I am not sure about cash market, one of my friend uses high TF and positional only, I have seen him book heavy loss keeping big SL because of High TF, also holding for months beyond SL only to wait to exit at his buy price.

Higher TF is only used to identify broader trend , i dont think it will be useful for trading especially index.

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assuming you are using kite - how much time you think it will take to place 1 order, modify the limit price and then wait for it to be filled & then set the stop loss ?

If you said 1 minute - then you need not have a time frame lower than that to trade

higher Time frame means less number of trades and opportunity. Not big loss and bigger stoploss.

Risk 2% of account per trade remains same irrespective of timeframe. When stoploss hits its only that 2% that goes away. The problem is thinking to keeping fixed sized of lot and then putting stoploss which is quite wrong.

The way I calculate my stoploss is , I find the average price based on movement of last 14 candles. The average true range gives this. The ATR says how much price has moved for average for past 14 candles from current price. So stoploss should be 1.5 times or 2times of this average.

stoploss(this becomes stoploss) : current price - how much pips will I risk (if I go long) or
current price + how much pips will I risk (if I go short)

piprate:- risk 2% of account / how much pips will i risk [ this is also the quantity you must buy as per your risk]

So essentially piprate tells me how much will i gain or loss per price move.

To know how much lot I need to enter : piprate / per tick rate

Example:-
I am taking crude oil as example randomly

current price: 7000
average for past 14 candles: 38
Take profit (scaling half of position away) = 38 + 7000 = 7038
Risk 2% account = 35000

how much pips will I risk:- (1.5) * 38 = 57

piprate:- 35000/ 57 = 614 ( means for every 1 rupee change i will gain 614 or lose, also this is quantity I should buy)

lots to enter: 614 /100(per tick rate of crude oil 100, 1 unit has 100 barrels) = 6 lots

I chose to go long
STP : 7000 -57 = 6943

So if stop loss hits my loss restricted to only risk 2% 35000. If I am going shorter time frame, the lots I enter would be more, if go to longer time frame the lots would be less. That simple.

Now you asked about RRR. So this value is calculated based on average of past 14 candles based on current price. So If trade goes your way you take 1 % off at take profit price(literally half of your position) and the bring stoploss to price at which entry was made i.e 7000 and ride the trend till exit indicator shows any signal. So is the risk to reward ratio 2: 1 looks absurd ?? absolutely not

Markets always trend, as a trend trader the goal is to get large big runs and pips while keeping losses to minimum. In the long run we win it would be like 1%, -2 %, 3 %, 1%, 2.7 %, 5%, -2 % …

This is how see things.

I am not sure how one can calculate and put stp do all this within a minute. Essentially all I feel you guys are keeping lot size as fixed and entering position and then somehow try to keep losses within 2% risk account without stoploss. That’s quite stressful to think of

zerodha released a video about trading futures using ATM option. It was seminar and still in youtube . TL;DR the idea was you can capture same movement in ATM option price. the calculation of STP , lot everything is same , you just add delta to ATR. trading that way is quite cheap as well.

Then we cannot sleep too!:grinning:

  1. you are positional am a day trader
  2. you use indicator I trade based on OI and price action
  3. You keep SL based on % of account, I keep SL based on price action alone(thats how SL here works)
  4. You do math for position sizing, I don’t do fixed lots or all lots in the beginning, i do pyramiding based on trend.
  5. so both are in different universe, there is nothing to discuss between us as both are in different path.

coming to the actual questionnaire, whatever the current week offs, leaves, 6 hrs is followed is more than enough.

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Five days a week ensures the smooth functioning of the market, I guess. The people working in the financial market need some rest. Furthermore, it allows investors and traders to digest some hard news in those two days.