Unrealistic and Margin Value in Hedged Index Futures

@Bhuvan State your reason of unlisting ??

Now its -22k.At this rate i might blow my account.Need urgent action.

@siva, @nithin, @Bhuvan

No issue here, my colleague will explain in detail in a bit.
Just in brief.
We don’t add unrealized profits but unrealized losses will be deducted during the day for futures, that is normal because one can use profits to take new position and after that position may again come down during the day.

Also unrealized profit in funds page is calculated from previous close, that is not deducted from your account but just a representation.

Dude.You can clearly see my margin utilised in previous screenshot.It is 81928.Now I am adding one of your own margin calculator detail which states i only need 55782.So clearly the difference which is 81928-55782=26146 (leave 3603 which i made a loss).So 26146-3603=22543 is my extra margin utilised.
It is not just a representation.It is actually being deducted from my total margin.Kindly look into the matter before saying it as just a “REPRESENTATION”.
Moreover If i remove my funds and keep only 55k+ loss of my future, can you guarantee that i will not get a margin call or my positions will not be squared off automatically due to low margin???


@siva @nithin @Bhuvan

@nithin @siva Hence We can get margin calls for no fault of ours.

PS: @Sadia_samar is my wife, and we both trade with our accounts at zerodha

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Sorry, I mean what kite shows is from buy avg price but for futures daily m2m will be there so today loss will be from yesterday close, can check this article to know how it works. I should have used different word instead representation.

No issue here, just a bit of miscommunication and misunderstanding, will arrange a call after 3.30 to explain this in detail.

Siva with the ongoing Lockdown in SA & Internation flight BAN we are stuck in South Africa. Any sort of internet call can work such as whats app etc…

normal calls will not work

Thanks for the clarification.As I can clearly remember yesterday my future was giving a profit of 19k though it never reflected in my funds as unrealised profit.It did not bother me yesterday as I had sufficient funds.As unrealised profit is added to margin required, will i get a margin call if my fund is deficit of 19k which was my previous day unrealised profit???Need a little clarification on this…
A whatsapp call on the matter will be very helpful.My whatsapp number is same as my contact detail on the account opening form.
@siva @nithin @Bhuvan

You managed to go through the link I have given on how futures obligation is calculated? that explains in detail. Also as you have puts it is hedged portfolio to an extent. Wassap call may not be possible but let me know if you still have doubts.

Actually I did go through the link you sent me and I must say I saw huge discrepancy.In your link let me quote “If you have taken a futures trade and not closed it during the day - The difference between your trade price and the closing settlement price will be settled to your account.” IT WAS NOT SETTLED IN MY ACCOUNT.Had it been settled my margin would have increased yesterday by 19k and today when my unrealised profit showed 22k, my actual utilised margin would have been (yesterday’s margin+19k-22k) which would have been logical as it would be equal to my original margin plus net future loss.You did give an example in your link but i would have appreciated if i could have got the same example in real life…

Anyways on a different note, I do have another query.I have hedged position of future and put(10000).If I buy 9500 pe of equal amount as my future and closes my 10000 pe. Can I get margin benefit quickly so that I don’t get a margin call or should i put enough fund treating my future as naked position?
@siva @nithin

-33K for no reasons (since zerodha system is having a glitch to not add +19k, and instead debit it as -19k) hats off to illogical system.

like this one day it will become -200K for no logical reasons.

Also please remove the unlisting so that everyone should know. else i have to reinitiate this as another topic and take this to twitter as well.

@nithin why are you silent on this ?

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@siva @nithin, May we have your response to have a better clarity on the process. as it seems ambiguous.

Kindly DO explain in details with example.

Can check this link. Also futures will have daily marking to market, means pnl will be adjusted based on yesterday close to todays close, you can check yesterday future close price and minus todays close price and multiply by quantity.
(10118.7 - 9686)*150 = 33k, the same is showing in unrealised profit.

You will get benefit but not equal to 10000 put, you can check benefit here.

Unlisted because this is not a support forum, for any doubt people may land here and post their queries.This forum is for general education, one can create ticket here for any support.

I hope you got this time, I tried my level best but still if you feel your query is not answered properly then let me know, I will ask some expert from our team to answer.

@siva, whatever you have explained as MTM seems illogical to me.

@nithin
means i have to book profit and loss everyday and initiate a new trade everyday or what…

Highly Disappointed.

Everyone who trades futures are aware of this,that’s how it works with any broker/exchange, anyhow maybe I din’t explained it in a better way, will ask someone from my team to reply you.

Also the link I shared is not checked.

Hi @shabbirhasan and @Sadia_samar,

The P&L on Kite is calculated on the Buy average of the trade when you entered the position, while your futures positions are marked to market(MTM) on a daily basis. Hence, your account is credited or debited on a daily basis based on the profits or losses from the previous day. The settlement process is explained by Nithin in this post and on Varsity here.

Since you had an MTM profit yesterday for the futures trade, this was added to your account yesterday. Please check your Console Ledger or your contract note and your account balance for today included this.

Intraday unrealized losses are adjusted from your account balances in real-time on Kite, however, intraday gains are settled on an EOD basis. This is the common industry practice to ensure the broker’s risk is minimal.

The options position, on the other hand, is not MTM settled by the exchange and can only be realized when the position is squared off or expires.

As soon as the 9500 CE position is created, the margin benefit is updated on Kite on an immediately. You can close the 10000 CE after and there won’t be a margin call.

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Hey, I have a business to run. :slight_smile:

Since this thread had run quite long, I just answered your question here. If you have any follow through question, just ask me in this thread.

Btw F&O is quite risky, please don’t trade until you have understood all the basic concepts. https://zerodha.com/varsity/ has everything.

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@Siva, Apologies if by any means with our replies you have got hurt. I got it now, and the link was checked.

Nevertheless Thanks for your kind and prompt support. :pray:

Checked my console.Yesterday’s profit was indeed added.Thanks for the clarification on margin and change of hedging instruments.
@siva @MohammedFaisal @nithin

@MohammedFaisal Very Well Explained. We have got it now.

@nithin, We know that you are running a business, and you are running it very well. And We wish you all the best for it as we are also onboard your platform. The answer to the question Why you have been dragged into this thread, When it comes towards a prospect of loosing money, One just think about how not to loose and can reach anyone who can guide what is going wrong. And who other than you we might not think of. so we asked you to answer.

Nevertheless when you have gems like @MohammedFaisal @siva i think you don’t need to be dragged in this kind of threads, we have got it by now and hope we wont drag you until and unless the matter will be out of hand and will not be dealt with.

Thank You. :pray: