commodity and currency trading is too low tax for government to worry about,… also where do u think commodity and currency traders go ? they are into index options now.
and why would they want to reduce the volume ? given that FM increased STT in recent budget, she knows where money is at.
btw how much charges goes to government in usa when u trade options…like STT , gst
IN USA if you are going to trade option only 2 charges you need to pay
1- brokerage - that is per contract they will charge 0.65 in charles schwab - some others broker Are providing free also
2- ORF - Option Regulatory Fee - means per contract they will charge $0.0113
when you are comparing India 80% fees less
No GST
No STT
No Exchange transaction charge
No Stamp paper tax
No Sebi Like Charges
No Brokerage Charges
Only India have the highest charges for financial instrument
if Any body doing algo every day in india - they make profit - finally they will paid all to govt
Before i also do intraday - i put all my effort 50% of my profit is going to GOVT , then why i need to trade daily -
now i am doing only monthly strategy in india - maximum 5 to 8 transtation only on monthly - yearly 35% profit i am making , i am happy in this one - no need to do sell option daily in algo , in long term you pay more tax only to the govt
if you loss also you need to pay charges compulsery
Nothing to worry. even if they implement.
We can form various investors group and pour 20-40 crores in single ID.
SEBI wants to scare off small investors to withdraw from market.
There is no full proof that only 1-2% make profit.
Show we believe on Mouth to Mouth rumours ?
There is NO authenticity How many are loser daily in F&O?
If this was true Nobody is fool to enter Option Market.
Somebody or group of individuals High networth/ DII/FII might have put pressure on SEBI to raise the value of lots in F&O
In all these discussions and analysis, not once has SEBI even considered high execution costs as one of the reasons for high number of losers. It wont change too much but will definitely lead to lower losses and better win rate among people who are not outright gamblers with short life.
They themselves say that 40-50% goes to govt/transaction costs from losers and this does not include slippage which is likely related to transaction costs as market markers need margin too. I pay 1x-1.5x in slippage vs transaction costs. So that’s where most of the money goes.
Data driven, yeah right. Interpretation has its biases too.
I have another question about SEBI’s data of FNO losses.
Say 90% Option buyers are losing money.
Option buying can be used as a hedge for a Future or Option Selling trade.
In both these cases even if my Trade is in profit, the option that was bought is going to be in loss by design.
Note - I don’t sell options so this is my assumption about those trades.
So the buying of Options though in loss actually served the desired purpose of the instrument.
So does SEBI have data to know when Options Buying Losses are in a hedging position or just naked option buying ? I believe the numbers will give a clearer picture about the actual losses in Options.
@nithin Would Zerodha have any data like this reg Option Buying ?
I believe this article covers this topic on “Hedge v/s Speculation”
Highlights from the article:
Derivatives are not just standalone instruments—they are closely connected to the equity markets. If we only look at traders’ P&L in derivatives, then we are missing a crucial part of the story i.e., the importance of hedging
…
The real purpose of derivatives:
Hedging is a globally well-known tool used for effective risk management. Hedging strategies are designed to minimise the impact of any short-term correction in asset prices. But this aspect often gets overlooked. Instead of focusing on the broader strategy, the conversation most of the time gets stuck on short-term gains and losses.
…
The cost of hedging:
Hedging is not free. It is like buying insurance—you pay a premium upfront for peace of mind. If we assess traders’ P&L solely based on their derivatives activity, without considering what they are protecting, then we are likely to misunderstand their actions. It is like saying, ‘90% of insurance buyers are losers!’ simply because they did not make a claim this year. It doesn’t capture the full picture.
so definitely indian government wont stop the revenue source.
Over 80% of trading activity is in option trading activity that expires on the same day. People trading options with a month-long view is less than 5%. And people using options to hedge is negligible. 
so u do u believe SEBI has plans to stop intraday speculation.
Sebi is looking at Intraday trading data also. They’ve repeatedly said, publicly, that they’ll go through all the data and then consult with relevant committees before indicating anything. But intraday trading is inherently speculation, as opposed to derivatives where the intention was to allow investors to hedge etc. So we’ll have to wait and watch. Maybe Sebi will want to disclose risks of intraday trading also in form of explicit disclosures.
i agree, intraday need to stop - most developed country is not allowed to do intraday trading less 25k $ account, because monthly option only make market will move smooth - weekely expiry will be removed in Indian market
intraday trades are pure gamble - paying hefty charges to govt - in long no intraday trades are win, - 25% to 30% profit is taken as govt charges, the same when they lose , the same charges will deduct from capital - , day trade is not for hedge - is for gamble
i believe SEBI will follow like Developed country style in derivates market
I think This guy tradeB2B does not understand liquidity , are u trading in 1 lot ?
This is INDIA , not USA to give u enough volume to do positional trading, if there is no intraday trading , you will have huge slippage or keep waiting for your limit order to fill out.
if u tell intraday is speculation ? what do u call tons of HFT algos ? they are the one that provides liquidity to the market. IF those things dont exist , indian market will be like liquidbees.
I guess you are positional optional seller who wants calm and smooth movement , so u can have that sweet theta decay without any injections.
If intraday is stopped every hedgefunds ,algo will be doing option selling positional and all the premiums will be cheap like hell.And if u hedge with OTM ull get worst returns than FD.
and if u dont use proper hedge . am sure some one with huge money or some event will take ur 60 days profit in 1 day with huge move.As we see always when sea (IV) is calm.
80% seems high, no doubt - but traders who have open positions earlier might want to squareoff near Expiry (after 2:30 or because of higher volatility), which will naturally cause higher volumes on Expiry Day than other days. No?
who told i am not hedged, i am doing calendar spread only, today only i took new position
every month my target is only 5% - liquidity is ok - drawdown is very low
even in june 4 market went down 8% calendar spread give me 7% , i exit on that day itself
what you think i am not traded intraday , i am not against intraday - before i trade only intraday - intraday lot of transaction will be there - most of the profit will be taken out by govt , in long run its not give a profit - in monthly ia am doing only 4 adjustment maximum my cost will be 100 rupees only - but my profit 2 to 2.5 lakhs , HFT are playing with 100+ crore , you cannot compare with HFT and like us retailer
i never be loss in 3 year - most of the time i will adjust my position - with in 2 weeks i will be in profit - and wait for next month - the main enemy for option seller is gamma risk - i completely erase in calendar spread
i am not a person to show th acoount valu and trades , but anyhow you argued i will flash some details - how much amount i deployed
i am trading 3 account because calender does in need to merge
1 zerodha
icici
angel
total 1.8 cr
today only i take one position in zerodha
this is IV super play strategy - any crash like 1200 points down or up you will be super profit
rest of the day minimal profit -
no indicator required, no need to be on screen - no need to watch market Evey movement,
no need to know what happened to the world,
no need algo subscription, no need to be a superpower in trading
no need to pay heft govt charges
only you need adjustment on our brain - rarely 5 adjustment per month only for make high profit
i am trading in 100 lots in call and 100 lots in put
i am not compounding in option trading - i will give those job to fund manager in mutual fund
If you cannot make money, does not mean others cant.
Charges are high yes, and that will definitely increase no of losers as taxes also likely impact slippage so its impact is doubled.
Greater the increase in charges, more profit margin gets reduced and at some point only gamblers will remain. We are not there yet, but if govt keeps increasing STT casually (fin minister herself said - double hi to kiya hai … ) then eventually that’s what would happen and traders will move up in timeframe.
But calling it pure gambling today is nonsense. I am profitable for ~5 years. This year is one of my best so far.
Everyone is ok with getting things banned as long as it doesn’t effect them. What we probably need is some kind of access control for absolute newbies into active trading. Some kind of minimum effort gatekeeping perhaps.
If intraday and/or market makers go away, i am not sure if even overnight trading would be feasible as liquidity would dry up. Just a guess.
who told i am not intraday trader - but yes i am not, but i do BTST - this one give me sure 2% per week - i am not against intraday - but Sebi person Anand speak to media intraday is like gambling ,
i am pure hedge trader in BTST and Monthly - - after october 1 again charges are increasing ,
most of the series trader are not trading intraday = i am in the market from 2007- i made a crores in option selling - now i am not working anywhere , i am option trader iin india and USA
any thing Rules come from sebi is against me also -
before i work in abudhabi investment company as FII desk the rules is do hedge trading only - they can buy and sell equity on rolling basic - but in derivates i never seen those company done intraday trading - in my knowledge i dont know -
