Why was Coin cut-off timing changed to 1pm today?

May I know for what reason the cut-off timing was changed to 1 pm today from the usual 1:30 pm?
At 10:30 am Zerodha announces that Coin cut-off would be revised to 1 pm only for today.

Earlier, last month on 2nd March Coin changed the timing to 1 pm.

@nithin May I know what is going on here?
Cut-off is already not synced with SEBI guidelines which I have been fighting for. Ticket No 20200921976293 which Zerodha support team doesn’t respond to. On top of that every now and then the cut-off timing is being manipulated.

I repeat, what is going on here?

Due to extended holidays, we have 3-4X the usual orders. We wanted to avoid any potential issues during uploading orders and hence we decided to move the cut-off time by 30 mins.

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@VenuMadhav you are the compliance officer of Zerodha. Your name is there in all trade notes. You want to say anything on how can you approve of this manipulation or shall I have to file an FIR that would drag you to courts for an answer?

We (The Exchange platform that we upload orders to) had trouble last time while uploading orders of such magnitude. So it was a choice between, upload orders 30 minutes early or risk not being able to upload any order. Chose the former.

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You are already cutting it off illegally, without consent of SEBI, violating investors’ rights by pre-closing the window at 1:30 pm instead of SEBI rules of 3 pm.
Above it, every now and then you pre-close to even earlier to 1 pm making the platform inconsistent and untrustworthy.

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FYI,

Tell me why the cut-off was not altered when market reopened after so many long weekends in both 2020 and 2021?

Curious here.

Does 30 mins or an hour really have an impact on mutual funds?

I mean I tend to see these as long term investments. So, does this micro timeframes really impact in the longer run?

Not inviting any heat, just curious. Cuz, I have mutual funds, and I never put much thought on order execution, as compared to trading.

If you see from the pov of investment and return, is a different discussion.
But see it from the lens of compliance and legalities. SEBI says cut-off is 3 pm. Zerodha is violating investors’ rights by pre-closing it at 1:30 pm. 6 months back Zerodha accepted this needs to be corrected.

By that logic, why should we pay taxes rightfully, kya farak fadta hai, why should we not drink and drive, why should there be rules at the first place. It goes on.

It is not the right comparison in my view.

Even I was pissed off by this change in cut off today…

SEBI maintains a time , zerodha maintains its own time and then all of a sudden they change it without any intimation and proper reason. I didn’t get any push notification for such change or nothing. By chance I logged in to see my previous orders went fine or not and then I see this as a small banner at bottom, curious to know the reason I click read more and there is no reason specified in the bulletin also…

Rupesh ur fighting right here and I would suggest you to go ahead and take it legally… I see u have been fighting from last two years or so and the answers have been vague or not acceptable… We pay the charges for the service and we have every right to question …

On one hand, Zerodha is violating the SEBI rules by altering the cut-off timing from 3 pm to 1:30 pm, on an everyday basis, and then every now and then making it 1 pm only shows the incapability of the platform. BTW, Zerodha on 9th October 2020 responded that it will sort this out shortly. But the delay only points towards the incapability of the tech team.

On the other hand, BSE is restricting Coin and other platforms to place orders on the BSE Star platform by 2:30 pm despite the 3 pm SEBI timings. I have already raised an official complaint to SEBI about the same.

My demand is simple. An investor should get his rightful. To be able to place a mutual fund order as per the SEBI rules.

I know I am fighting this battle alone. But I also know that once the change is made, every investor would be benefited.

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Hi,

Can you please exactly point out, which SEBI rule is any broker in violation of?

I think the SEBI rules around cut-off timings are for Mutual Funds to adhere to (and that too in the context of giving NAVs) and not brokers / MF order aggregator platforms - https://www.sebi.gov.in/sebi_data/commondocs/imdcir1106_h.html

What investor right are you talking about? And why should a broker cut-off time match SEBI cut-off time? Isn’t it a moot point. They might have their own back office operations before sending the orders which rightfully will take time and is up to them to decide.

ICICIDirect also has different cut-offs then SEBI - https://www.icicidirect.com/mailimages/ic_MFCutOff_APR20.html?utm_source=idirect&utm_medium=banner_logout&utm_term=banner&utm_content=time&utm_campaign=MF_MFCUTOFF_07APR2020

They clearly say Revised Cut-off Time prescribed by SEBI / Revised Cut-Off time on ICICIDirect.com - which are different. Have you included them in your SCORES as well?

Anyhow, please correct me if I am wrong by pointing to the exact rule brokers / MF order aggregating platforms are in violation of.

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I am not going to prove to you or anyone anything as this case is sub juidice now. Let’s SEBI have his final word.

This acceptance by Zerodha to align with SEBI rules is enough.

Maybe you can fight their legal case if they are breaking their promise.

Wow. Are you for real? You should not be posting anything related to it either and having such a debate in open forum if the case is in subjudice. How come the subjudice is applied one way? This proves you have no rule to back it up which mandates broker to follow exact cut-off time as followed by mutual funds (via SEBI).

Secondly, the customer support reply you keep posting everywhere and is also your spirited banner -

  1. It is not some kind of admission of guilt. It is a polite way to reply. But you seem to be taking it as your victory lap.
  2. I don’t think “In Sync” here means exactly the same time. It probably means more in-line and with lesser gap between the two. But its debatable.
  3. And even if it means cut-off time for brokers and SEBI mandate on MF to be the same - they are working on the changes and haven’t given any timeline. “Shortly” for you may mean 1 month but for them it can mean 1 year or maybe more depending upon their priorities.

Something to ponder …

Also, I am not a lawyer … but good luck with your SCORES.

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I am too tired after a very hectic and stressful day and the frustrating behavior of Zerodha. Still, I’d try to help you.

  1. It reads - application received up to 3 pm for same-day NAV. But the thing is Zerodha doesn’t pass on the application to BSE Star on the same day if you submit after 1:30 pm. While as per SEBI they should accept orders till 3 pm. This is the issue.

  2. Zerodha is not the only culprit here. If Zerodha is restricting us to place orders after 1:30 pm, BSE Star is also forcing Zerodha, Kuvera etc. to pass on the buy orders by 2:30 pm for same-day NAV. I have mentioned this in this thread. Why was Coin cut-off timing changed to 1pm today?

  3. My point is simple, I can understand there could be underlying technical challenges but it can’t be bypassed at the stake of investors’ rights to be able to place an order by 3 pm.

  4. If you go to the AMC website, you would be able to place an order by 3 pm and get same-day NAV. In that sense, a Coin user of anyone whose order goes through BSE Star platform becomes a loser.

  5. Between BSE Star and AMC, there could be some sort of understanding that orders be received by 3 pm regardless of the platform, without any discrimination and between 3-3:30 there could be a settlement between BSE Star and AMC for NAV realization. Something like that. I am sharing this with my limited knowledge. But at least I am making an attempt to give investors’ rights a priority.

  6. At last but not least, being a mutual fund investor shouldn’t you be supporting me that at least someone is fighting for this cause. You will also benefit from it once things are streamlined. No?

Take care.

Trust me mate. I am also trying to help you to look beyond the hours and days and years you have spent on this. You are all over the place with assumptions and non-implicit conclusions. I am also making a last attempt to help you see this through -

As already clear from the link - https://www.sebi.gov.in/sebi_data/commondocs/imdcir1106_h.html, this is for mutual funds. Zerodha is not a Mutual Fund and hence not bound by these rules. Hence, it is factually incorrect to assume SEBI rules applicable on Mutual Funds are also applicable on brokers.

Moot point. You are still talking about brokers / MF order aggregating platforms. If many are doing something wrong doesn’t make one right. But if there is something illegal, please specify which applicable SEBI rule is broken.

No investor right is violated. Broker in this case is kind of a service provider / order aggregator. An investor can ofcourse go directly to MF website and buy till 2:59PM. You can judge them based on facilities they provide and choose your service provider. But to use foul language along with words like FIR, illegal, courts is totally uncalled for.

You are “attempting to give investor’s rights a priority?” Can you please explain what does it even mean? It is not a race with BID/ASK as if you are buying a stock on best price. All orders will get the same NAV. If you wish to use the slot between 1:30 PM and 3:00 PM and want the same day NAV, you may go to the MF directly on website for that facility might not be available currently with your broker. Discrimination is if BSE star accepts one MF orders till 3 PM and another till 5 PM for same NAV. That is not the case as strictly articulated by SEBI.

I would love to bro … but only when I find merit in your argument. The way I see it … nothing is stopping you from having the NAV you want within SEBI guidelines by going directly to the MF website. If you wish to use a broker / demat based product … its your call. And every product comes with its baggage of pros and cons.

So give yourself some discount. You are not fighting for a do-or-die cause … but just a feature in the product you have already chosen.

Take care.

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@nithin @VenuMadhav please present your views on the righteousness (or falseness) of my demands to help @abhiwin123

@amitb @Celina let me attempt another example - Market closes at 3.30 pm. If Zerodha tomorrow onwards says - It will not allow any trading post 2 pm even if market closes at 3.30 pm, Zerodha closes at 2 pm. Does it make valid hypothetical example to help you understand the case?

Actually, that is a perfect analogy with a small extension proving my point. Every broker does close the market for intraday orders at their own convenient time and before the actual market closes, depending upon the time they think it will take to settle their overnight risk, back office operations and outstanding margin calls. Hence, MIS orders are restricted for clients - in some brokers at 2:45 PM, in some at 3:00 PM and in some at 3:20 PM. Isn’t it?

This looks more similar to MF cut-offs … case in point. Will you lodge a complain in SCORES asking SEBI that all brokers should allow intraday till 3:30 PM? Hmmm.

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