BSE F&O is a new segment, and the issue faced in the last two weeks is a connectivity issue with the exchange. So the leased lines through which orders get fired to the exchange got disconnected and we still don’t know why. We are investigating. This is one of those things a broker has no control on. All brokers connect to the exchanges via leased lines and if they go down (along with the backup) nothing can really be done. We will post on bulletin as soon as we know what is going wrong, is it some limitation at the line or some configuration changes needed at our end or a limitation at BSE’s end as they are probably for the first time seeing this much turnover.
By the way there are no ghost orders, and I am talking on behalf of all brokers. When a leased line goes down, the broker system loses track of what is happening with the orders already placed on the exchange. So whenever the leased line comes back up, the broker does what is called reconciliation or figuring out what happened to all the pending orders. When this Recon happens, the timestamp on the order will be the time when the recon was done and not when the order was actually executed on the exchange. So on a day like yesterday, if we did a recon after market, the timestamp will show the time after market. It is impossible for an order to get executed after market hours.
If you click on the order details to see the trade book, you will see the actual traded time.
There is a backup line, but you can’t have more than one secondary. Also, the issue is when disconnection happens, it takes time to figure what is the reason for it. Is it the leased lines, the adapters, the CTCL, etc. One issue in the underlying exchange infra in India is that the same customer can’t be on multiple CTCLs at the same time. So what it means is say that Zerodha has 10 CTCLs through which orders are getting fired to the exchange. The status of order fired through a CTCL can only be fetched through that CTCL. If the CTCL goes down for whatever reason, we can’t automatically start fetching/firing orders from another CTCL immediately. This transition takes time. I don’t know if I explained this well, but maybe we will create a post on this.
@VijayNair if these issues could be solved by just adding more backup leased lines, we would have done it already. We would have to be deluded not to do it.
The US doesn’t have this problem, but their implementation has much bigger problems. When an order is fired in India, the broker can only send it to the exchanges for matching. In the US, the broker can do whatever with it, send it to exchanges, send it to HFT firms, be the counterparty etc. So they don’t have to depend on exchange connectivity, but the ability for the broker to sell an order flow is a much bigger problem, according to me.
Yep, they do, but almost always impossible to cover all edge cases that can happen in real markets. But as I said earlier, this is a new segment and may be the first time the BSE systems, CTCLs, our BSE connections, and Lines are seeing this much activity. The risk is always high at the beginning of a new initiative.
who will bear loss of this glitches, trader already losing much on top of that these kind of unseen losses, we pay brokerage to zerodha not to BSE, over year paid 14 lakh+ brokerage, so we pay brokerage to zerodha , zerodha should take responsbility of these losses, all trader combined must have lost in croress,
Ok, In this what should be done by a Trader or Investor to protect our fund? You need orders to get through for the system to work right but who is responsible for a mess that is made by either broker or exchange ? Some kind of protection is required for the client as well right? A broker who says (not only Zerodha) you signed IBT so this is included in that or a broker who at least has Insurance up to a particular amount if things go wrong? I hope someone will be there to see this and stand up for Us.
I suppose one clumsy solution might be to null the trade (at the echange for both parties) that caused considerable delay in confirmation (for either).
Another would be to refund using the lifetime brokerge paid by the customer.
3rd would be a new individual insurance plan for such cases - but dont know what premium it would take to insure.
After reading the thread, I felt the issue was the order confirmation did not reach back the customers. Assuming the connection lost during the order feedback process.
BSE & NSE should open their portal for the end customer to check if their orders are punched or not. This will reduce the dependency on broker’s IT capability. Also the customer could hedge or get into contra. position if the broker goes down.
If exchange cannot provide this facility real time, then this risk could happen in the future also.
I have mentioned this before, and I am telling this as a trader and irrespective of whichever brokerage firm you are trading and wherever in the world. As a trader, we have to constantly keep evaluating all risks, and technical risk is one of them. No trading platform in the world can be up 100% of the time. The technical risk from your own systems/connectivity to the trading app to the exchange itself. The only way around this is to ensure you are not trading large enough positions.
If a broker had to cover for the notional losses due to tech issues, the business itself isn’t viable. One bad day and brokers could go bankrupt.
About individual cases here, it is best to create support tickets and our team will see what is the best that can be done. This isn’t the right forum for that.
SEBI has asked exchanges to work on giving the ability to customers to exit positions in case the broker platform is having issues. Just exit and not enter. But this isn’t going to be easy problem to solve for the exchanges.
Does it mean that the orders are getting executed when it was fired but the time stamps are of the time of recon
What happens to MIS orders in such cases as those orders need to get squared off before market close, exchanges does it on their own because Brokers can’t do it as they themselves are not aware of any such completed orders in first place
Yes, If the orders are placed and then a disconnection happens, if it is executed the time stamp will be of recon.
There is no concept of MIS, NRML, etc, at the exchanges. These are all products created by the broking firms. So yes, if an order is placed as MIS and there is a disconnection and the market closes, it will end up being carried for the next day.
Not all trades. They are working on showing a client ID’s net position at any given time, which is what you are asking. But this facility by the exchange will get enabled only when the broking platform has an issue.