Zerodha bse glitch: 2L lost (potential 10L loss avoided)

[viswaram]

@nithin

The US doesn’t have this problem

How is US stock exchanges & brokers avoiding this issue? Is it because they have a better telecom infrastructure?

[Satyajit_Hanchnalkar]

If MIS order are at broker end then what about stoploss order? Are GTT , SL M and SL Limit orders also at broker end?

[nithin]

@SpacemanSpiff

This leased line vulnerability has been there forever, Is it not possible to push exchanges to fix above ?

As I said earlier, this issue isn’t really there with NSE as much anymore. We haven’t had any issues for a long while now. With BSE, this is a new initiative and I am hoping it will get fixed soon.

[nithin]

@viswaram

How is US stock exchanges & brokers avoiding this issue? Is it because they have a better telecom infrastructure?

@nithin

The US doesn’t have this problem, but their implementation has much bigger problems. When an order is fired in India, the broker can only send it to the exchanges for matching. In the US, the broker can do whatever with it, send it to exchanges, send it to HFT firms, be the counterparty etc. So they don’t have to depend on exchange connectivity, but the ability for the broker to sell an order flow is a much bigger problem, according to me.

Hmm… I shared this above already?

[nithin]

@Satyajit_Hanchnalkar

If MIS order are at broker end then what about stoploss order? Are GTT , SL M and SL Limit orders also at broker end?

SL and SL-M orders are at the exchange as it is a product offered by the exchanges. GTT is a product offered by us and hence it is not on the exchanges.

[VRV]

I appreciate that you are replying and listening to us, but I also urge you to think like how you were thinking when you started Zerodha. You initiated the current market trend of the discount brokerage system in India and revolutionized the trading industry.

You have shown that you are capable of innovating and solving problems. Now, I hope you can see this scenario as well, where your clients are facing a lot of glitches and technical problems (the number is increasing and will increase only with more participation) that affect our trading experience and outcomes. I strongly believe that the same Nithin who started Zerodha can come up with a solution. You have the potential and the responsibility to make your platform and service better and more reliable for your customers.

[Satyajit_Hanchnalkar]

We can mitigate glitch by implementing SL limit order as market order explained in…

How to use Stoploss-limit(SL) order like a Stoploss-Market(SLM) order?

Right.

[AryanKB]

did other brokers face the same issue ?
iifl also has bse fno was it the same with them also or its just with zerodha ?

[nithin]

@VRV

Now, I hope you can see this scenario as well, where your clients are facing a lot of glitches and technical problems (the number is increasing and will increase only with more participation) that affect our trading experience and outcomes.

@VRV thanks for the words, but the above isn’t true. We closely track how much downtime we have had, which is down significantly with time. Most of our issues historically have been due to external dependencies, which we have slowly reduced with time. But we can do nothing if there is disconnection at exchanges or leased lines. We can only say we won’t offer BFO (BSE FO) until everything stabilizes. By the way, since BFO is a new product and that is why we have, on our own, never even spoken about BFO to customers.

On the downtime issue, the benchmark isn’t a competition, but we think we are much better than most other large brokers in terms of downtime. The noise is much louder if you track social media because of our size. Social media has always been a double-edged sword for us. For example, only 0.4% of customers trading in BFO and 0.1% potentially were affected when the issue happened yesterday, but social media noise makes it seem like everything was down at Zerodha.

Everything said the only thing we constantly work on is reducing downtime as much as possible. But it is impossible for it to be 0.

[nithin]

@AryanKB

did other brokers face the same issue ?
iifl also has bse fno was it the same with them also or its just with zerodha ?

Only a few brokers are live on BSE FO, and I can see that some of them were also affected. At least from the broker groups I am on.

[Razx5_Perla]

There s something called VSAT connection rt?is it same as leased line/ctcl. ?
Long back. A decade ago. have seen some HNI traders punching orders thru this vsat connection. They said its the fastest and most secure than any other connectivity. Never disconnects

[zerodhahero]

1 learning I can think for future is : Let’s not be in a hurry & offer the product only post the initial glitches.

[nithin]

@Razx5_Perla

There s something called VSAT connection rt?is it same as leased line/ctcl. ?
Long back. A decade ago. have seen some HNI traders punching orders thru this vsat connection. They said its the fastest and most secure than any other connectivity. Never disconnects

Ah, VSAT is outdated technology; it was highly unreliable. But yeah, in its time, it was better than dial-up connections. Leased lines are infinitely better. Exchanges have stopped supporting VSAT connections.

[VRV]

I appreciate that you are tracking your downtime and reducing your external dependencies, but I also want you to realize the impact and importance of your downtime on your customers. We can debate this topic for months but that is not going to be helping either for you or us. Social Media noise is much higher because of how the issue is solved at the root. (Word of mouth was once the real power of Zerodha of course with all the other things before this much hype in social media)

@nithin

But we can do nothing if there is disconnection at exchanges or leased lines. We can only say we won’t offer BFO (BSE FO) until everything stabilizes. By the way, this is why we have, on our own, never even spoken about BFO to any customer.

I understood that there isn’t much left to do from your side. As a customer, I can feel the helplessness of “the No1 broker in India.”

@nithin

The noise is much louder if you track social media because of our size. Social media has always been a double-edged sword for us. For example, only 0.4% of customers trading in BFO and 0.1% potentially were affected when the issue happened yesterday, but social media noise makes it seem like everything was down at Zerodha.

Same this because the size you said you have is much higher than your competition.

@nithin

If a broker had to cover for the notional losses due to tech issues, the business itself isn’t viable. One bad day and brokers could go bankrupt.

I believe there isn’t much to say about the topic as it’s already been discussed above. Only hope to see there is a solution not only to this particular case but to the whole thing called IBT, under which everyone is hiding.

[nithin]

@zerodhahero

1 learning I can think for future is : Let’s not be in a hurry & offer the product only post the initial glitches.

As I mentioned, we haven’t spoken about BSE FO to our customers. This is all mainly self-discovery. Maybe we will create a nudge to warn customers that this product is in its initial period.

[VijayNair]

The most dangerous is - inordinate delay in order confirmations, which completely blindsides traders.

Best solutions for the above problem needs exchange help looks like

1. Have the ability to track net positions active at the exchange directly - preferably at all times.

2. Talk to the exchange and find a way for the customer to be on multiple CTCLs at the same time and incorporate multiple leased lines - whatever solves the problem.

3. Null the trades (for both parties) when such ‘confirmation delays’ happen due to interruption in broker/exchange communications.

[t7support]

Unlike google and amazon going down when something happens with the broker / exchange people may lose money. So IMO liability need to fall on the party at fault after an audit.

Currently liability falls on the customer for no fault of his unless the broker (like some brokers) or exchange is willing to issue a refund.

[sanjay153]

I have incurred 17K loss due to this glitch, I request at least refund of the brokerage charges for yesterdays trade.

[nithin]

@sanjay153

I have incurred 17K loss due to this glitch, I request at least refund of the brokerage charges for yesterdays trade.

Please create a support ticket; we are reviewing all the cases and responding. It might take a couple of days before we have responded to all.

[dtyxg]

Ankit bhai

@nithin is probably the only person (From Broking industry) who comes on the forum and replies to the questions.
Its easy to point fingers.

If you still feel the same you can happily shift to FINVASIA & if you are facing any problem you would be slapped with the only message

Zerodha is the most transparent out-there

Zerodha transparency discloures