All Option strategies failed strategies?

[raoawesome]

@TradeB2B

i am making 50% return every year , the same profit i invest in bankbees , nifty bees and juniour bees etf - every month

I am asking out of curiosity and might sound quite dumb.

If I make a profit of 1,20,000 from F& O and invest that back in liquidbees and hold it or any MF or gsec bonds . No separate taxes??. Is that true ?? No taxes for that Financial year ??

[trader_dude]

50% return for how much risk taken?

what is your sortino ratio?

you need to see the returns in the context of risk taken, otherwise it’s a bad idea to even consider such returns.

imagine you find out you have taken twice the risk to make that 50% this year and you will lose that 50% in the next year and then some more.

Always calculate the risk adjusted returns.

[Jason_Castelino]

@raoawesome

profit of 1,20,000 from F& O and invest that back in liquidbees and hold it or any MF or gsec bonds . No separate taxes??

You have to pay taxes on FNO income. I.e. on 120,000

[SpacemanSpiff]

50% is imaginary fake number apparently. But anyway even if true, from below

Option Sellers - Average Return?

@Vij @curiousvi @CoolBird @maddy_Des @bitgooods Hellow friends , i had severe fever , i did in see the computer for a week , i never touch my trades in these days , just watch a tv , every thing is fine , Lot of people ask about my strategy its nothing secrets behind that , its all psychology of your mind and your emotion , lets tell an example in a simple word ,for example if one of my strategy is giving loss of 50 k what you will do , you people just book loss and look for other trade …

Blockquote
No 1 if i see a loss in my trades i will never get out of the trades, because i dont have a stoploss

This will probably result in blow up of account eventually, if trading is not imaginary.

I remember another guy long time ago from traderji - who claimed its easy to make money through option selling and adjustment, kept on saying how easy it all is. Eventually he went bust holding against a one way move. last post here.

Now i am sure there are sellers who manage risk better, but somehow he reminds me of him …
Anyway, trading is competitive, there is no free lunch. Money can be made but its not easy monthly income. If it was easy to do, it will get arbitraged away. So there is probably always some tradeoff and some level of skill involved and risk is part of reward.

[ronin_sha]

People somehow fail to realise that they need to stay alive.

If trading is consuming oneself,well, you need to put the brakes, take a step backward. Else you ll not know what hit you, and find yourself plunging into the trading graveyard.

That’s not so nice for anyone.

[raoawesome]

@Jason_Castelino

You have to pay taxes on FNO income. I.e. on 120,000

I thought so because f&o is consider bussiness income which will be clubbed with other income and taxed according to slabs.

I would love if they said we are paying in gold ETF or liquid bees ETF for your futures profit or options profit . That way no bussiness tax liability for that year😛.

[Jason_Castelino]

@raoawesome

I would love if they said we are paying in gold ETF or liquid bees ETF for your futures profit or options profit . That way no bussiness tax liability for that year😛.

And what happens when you sell this?? Entire sales proceeds will be your capital gain. There is no cost of acquisition

[Jason_Castelino]

@SpacemanSpiff

But anyway even if true, from below

Just read the post you have reffered to. I guess I am doing something similar to @TradeB2B.
Even I dont understand charts or techincals. Suport or resistance.

[SpacemanSpiff]

@TradeB2B

Guys assume exception from market per month 3.5% permonth and 7 % from debt and money market

@TradeB2B

every month profit is 3 lakhs

@TradeB2B

No 1 if i see a loss in my trades i will never get out of the trades, because i dont have a stoploss
No 2 , and i will keep the target for every month profit ratio is 4 % to 5 %
NO 3 i will always adjust the loss trades and i will try my best to convert into profit of4 to 5 % per month
No 4 In every month i have loss swing of 1 to 2 lakhs , you ready to control your mind ,stomach and emotion and have hope and have a deep knowledge of converting loss into profit
No 5 Have a big Fat amount to trade and enough buffering amount in your account , Most of the traders get out of the market because of No buffer amount in his trading account to adjust

Charts or technicals don’t really matter here, that’s just one way of entry/exit.

Eventually a move will happen when you run out of adjustment. Bigger the buffer, lower will be your returns. At some point, i believe you have to call a loss a loss and move on, or eventually mother of all loses will have to be taken ( quoting seykota … ). If there is no leverage involved/you are hedged, then we can simply buy and hold forever i guess. But then why is market paying 50% ?

I am no option expert, so i could be completely mistaken. But its hard for me to believe that market will give an easy 50% yearly AND 4-5% monthly with no tension. That kind of talk seems more of a honeypot Maybe its possible, if so that’s your holy grail. Anyway, post by Celina kind of adds some insight too.

50% may be possible depending on how much DD one will tolerate, and still returns depends a lot on luck as markets will do what they will. Last year for ex, has been tough for some type of intraday trend followers - edge has reduced. Same can happen for any system and things can change back too. Absolute consistency over multiple years is probably not possible at single system level. Only for risk free returns.
Again, i am no expert. Completely possible he has some skill in all of this that he understates, but anyway thats how i see things …

[raoawesome]

@Jason_Castelino

And what happens when you sell this?? Entire sales proceeds will be your capital gain. There is no cost of acquisition

well if you are just patient for a year, You get 1 lakh off as exempt and pay only flat 10% as LTGC compared to paying slabs under business income.

[Jason_Castelino]

@raoawesome

well if you are just patient for a year, You get 1 lakh off as exempt and pay only flat 10% as LTGC compared to paying slabs under business income.

Thats applicable only for equity etf. For gold and debt etf period of holding is 3 years to be classifed as a long term capital asset. Further tax rate is 20percent.

[Chirag1]

Jason bhai, LTCG with “indexation”

[ronin_sha]

@TradeB2B

No 1 if i see a loss in my trades i will never get out of the trades, because i dont have a stoploss

Sunday reading community post, however I cannot digest this.

Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent

This is the number 1 reason, I keep strict stoploss. Its just another normal day, when I take the loss that i should take.

People who keep adjusting. I feel sometimes, they end up taking the mother of all losses.

But hey, this is the circus. All kinds of tricks are handy, and i cannot blame any sleight of the hand, if i don’t know it.

I can just say, it’s not my style.

[Jason_Castelino]

@Chirag1

Jason bhai, LTCG with “indexation”

Ah bilkul. I was just saying 1lakh exemption and reduced rate is not available. Also indexation is hardly 5 percent per annum. There is higher opportunity cost

[Vij]

From whatever conversations I have had with @TradeB2B ; he only does iron condors, not naked; and he rolls.

[ronin_sha]

As I said, everyone has their own style.

Trading is one big circus. well, he seems to juggle the balls rather effectively, which for a non juggler like me, what’s the right word, dumbfounded.

I admit it’s something i cannot do. Doesn’t mean someone cannot.

[raoawesome]

@Jason_Castelino

Ah bilkul. I was just saying 1lakh exemption and reduced rate is not available. Also indexation is hardly 5 percent per annum. There is higher opportunity cost

Hmm what happens when you take loan against securities and settle it with Securities. Say take 1 lakh as loan for 1 lakh liquidbees unit for 10k interest. I settle it with 10k worth more liquidbees without involving hard cash. Do I get away completely with tax ?

Like my profits are payed in liquidbees or money market treps MF units for my f&O profits. Instead of redeeming them I take loan against my Securities. My interest would be just 2%. I use the loan money for expenses and settle the interest and loan using more liquidbees security. . No tax at all just 2% interest from banks. Wonder if SEBI would allow to people to get payed in liquidbees or treps instead of cash

[TradeB2B]

@Celina

this image file has high probability of being manipulated from the original source.

clone detection. footprint of pixels being moved from one area to another.

Hai @Celina what kind of engineer you are , i think you are not suitable for any cybercrime job or detective job in IT – its ok

hai @Celina you mentioned its manipulated , i dont know how can i manipulate console , see here i am not selling anything , i am not impressing anybody , i no need to manipulate for what , i am not a trainer , i am not selling any software , i dont know how can use chart also , i am not technology well person - so for what reason i need to manipulate tellme - see my past post , @Riyas_Ahamed the same thread belongs to me also , then come to me

[TradeB2B]

@ronin_sha

Sunday reading community post, however I cannot digest this.

Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent

This is the number 1 reason, I keep strict stoploss. Its just another normal day, when I take the loss that i should take.

People who keep adjusting. I feel sometimes, they end up taking the mother of all losses.

But hey, this is the circus. All kinds of tricks are handy, and i cannot blame any sleight of the hand, if i don’t know it.

I can just say, it’s not my style.

See @ronin_sha i am making 50% of profit ever year ,that’s true , how i am making you need to understand , dont make negative everything , if you feel negative then why needs be in stock market ,

see i am using only one strategy is IRON CONDOR , even corona crash also i make 2% , even this recent crash also i made good money , loss will be there in MTM but not end of the month - i am trading 10+teras in market
i am very well positioned in iron condor - this strategy making 3 to 3.5% every month - i have enough capital to adjust - even my dream is need to make 50 cr , when i started with 10 lakhs its grown to 1.2 crore , then why 1.2 croere to 50crore - now my income is very big , i can easily achieve this

[TradeB2B]

@SpacemanSpiff

I am no option expert, so i could be completely mistaken. But its hard for me to believe that market will give an easy 50% yearly AND 4-5% monthly with no tension. That kind of talk seems more of a honeypot Maybe its possible, if so that’s your holy grail. Anyway, post by Celina kind of adds some insight too.

@SpacemanSpiff now i can tell how i am achieving this 50% then you will understand my strategy

first i invested all my money in mixed debt fund - whatever i earned profit in option i invested in equity fund and ETF - the same i will pledge again i will trade option , every month i will compounded

i will not trade intraday , no for futures - no swing , no chart based trade -
only iron condor in nifty and covered call in some stock and covered put

Mixed debt income in long term Including Gsec - 7%
equity fund and ETF income ------Minimum---------- 12%
Option trading profit income -----------------------------3.5% Per month (yearly Approx- 35%)

And apart from that i have dividended income of 3.1 lakhs rupees - this will i keep for living

so total 7% + 12% + 35% = 54% - keep as 50% Yearly income - its simple easy achievable

i believe your doubt is cleared

Note- I am technologically not well person- i dont know the chart reading , i don’t know support and resistant ,
i dont know algo , i dont know anything in technical and technolgical level

i know only ironcondor and sensibull - apart from that i am not using anything -
money can be made in simple in market - smart work is better then hard work