Alternatives to Zerodha for Frequent F&O Trading

General
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Hi Everyone,

Need some feedback about suitable alternatives to Zerodha.

Twice in last 2-3 months I’ve been hit with this automatic order execution causing severe losses (courtesy of Zerodha’s systems and default settings which they refuse to edit or allow users to configure) . Here is the thread which has now been delisted by Zerodha Stalwarts:

I even suggested a simple solution to them in the above thread, but as expected they turned a blind eye to it as their revenues come only when trade happens.

Whatever meagre amounts I saved on the so-called discount brokerage charges of Zerodha, I lost 2,000 times of it today morning in a split second due to erronous trading system. Similar loss occurred 2-3 months back.

Since it has happened couple of times, I need a reliable broker for Frequent F&O Trading.
I usually place 1-2 trades per day in F&O, and don’t need a superfast order execution (That is the root cause of Zerodha’s problem).

I want a broker who, after I fill in the order details, shows an intermediate screen/webpage with all the info for a confirmation, and when I hit Proceed button, only then the order should move to the exchange.

I hear ICICIdirect and HDFCsec has such simple feature (intermediate confirmation screen), though their charges may be higher. But given the two big losses I had to suffer because of Zerodha, I feel its better to pay somewhat higher charges instead of wiping out it big due to Zerodh’a default settings and systems.

May be Zerodha has lots of extremely active traders who keep trading at split seconds, and they want direct order sending. Unfortunately, I am not one of those, so I’d like to explore others.
Zerodha seems to have become too big to listen to customer problems.

Thanks in advance, and will appreciate your reliable inputs.

2 Likes
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You can check out Fyers, alice blue and angel broking. i personally find the defaulting behaviour actually very useful

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When you exited at market price due to default setting, worst case is you would have exited at 0.1% higher or lower than current price for an actively traded stock/index.

If you felt that you made a mistake after the order got executed, you could have entered a reverse order again at current price immediately in next 30 seconds. This would have allowed you to exit carefully at a preferred limit order at your pre-determined price.

Let me know if I missed something. Just trying to help within the current framework.

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Thanks @Magnum007 for your inputs. I will explore those.

The issue is that order was sent off without action from my side. Here’s some reality with numbers:
I have been trading since last ~20 years (with Zerodha for 6-7 years). No doubt their interface and system is great, but such straight-thru-processing (STP) kills everything in one shot.

Whatever I saved in the name of their low cost discount brokerage charges in last 6-7 years, I won’t be able to recoup what I lost yesterday even if I stay with them for next 20 years with 1-2 daily F&O trades on their discounted brokerage charges.

One Single erronous unknown system trade can kill anyone, and take away all the benefits in a split second.

I truly wish nobody faces this kind of problems, but the fact of the matter is that it is highly likely to recur in future as well. Has Happened twice with me in a span of 3 months.
Just be careful and cautious everyone! The Risk in such errornous orders is much much much more than the meagre benefits one gets from low brokerage and features.

@Ragavendran_V - the above mentioned likelihood/probability makes it highly unreliable, despite the alternative you suggested. (Should I say that a broker would prefer your way as it will lead to multiple brokerages for such multiple trades? :slight_smile: )

Obviously their profits are based on trades happening, so they want trades to happen and they dont care about the problems small traders like me (with only 1-2 trades F&O per day) face.

In essence, looks like we are not for each other :slight_smile:

That’s why looking for a slow and reliable alternative broker.

Other fellow traders, request you to please share your inputs too on alternatives.

Thanks

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May I know what exactly you did that caused you such a big loss?

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Sorry , but its very hard to believe that in split sec someone can loose so much !

1 Like
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If you have a position of say 6 lots in futures, and the underlying stock tanks by say 4%, and the order gets sent without you doing anything, the loss can be in several lakhs.

But let’s focus on the topic - looking for feedback on alternative brokers who at least offer an intermediate screen/prompt which shows the trade values filled, and only then send the order to the exchange

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Why are you comparing split sec error with 10 days trade?

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@Ragavendran_V - that’s the problem. I did not do anything.

The order was sent off automatically at both the occasions.

Had surplus money exceeding a few lakhs so no case of margin requirements, was ready to hold the position till expiry, and was holding it for last fortnight - there is no reason for me to quit that position. It just got executed on its own!

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ohh! So you are saying without even placing any order ,your order got placed? Have you checked any open GTT or you are using any API .Maybe change your password or use TOTP if your account is comprised. without API or your own trigger of order or GTT i don’t think any random order can be placed by itself

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No @AlgoEye
Nothing of that sort like account compromised or GTT.

And that’s what hurts. Suffering a big loss without any order being sent by me.

At the first time, I gave them benefit of doubt and even suggested a solution which was junked. But second time, its difficult to digest.
Helpdesk is worse than automated bots - keep copy-pasting random replies on unrelated topics like stoploss and margin. They are yet to tell if it was a MARKET order (which I assume) or if it was a LIMIT order, and more importantly how it was sent when I did not…absolutely no info other than “order was executed for this price for this quantity”. There is no escalation matrix either.

These are the things that matter the most when you run into troubles. That’s why I said, one split second system error can take away all the benefits.
I only wish no one goes thru this pain.

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Slippages is a part of trading. You cannot always get the exact fill you want. But you have 2 decades of experience, so you already know all this.

And why should a single trade wipe everything? Even if it goes wrong. But hey, I am not into split second trades, so I may be wrong as per your perspective.

Kite pick the settings as we leave. Thats what I know.

You are always free to try other alternatives. I tried fyers, Aliceblue. The only thing is that they don’t have instant withdrawal feature. For people who wants money back to bank sat n Sundays.

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Thanks @Celina for your inputs on fyers and Aliceblue. Will explore!

This is not a case of slippages - its a case of automatic error trade on its own. Happened twice, and if not checked it will continue hitting.

By wipe everything: Even if I keep 18L trading capital for margin cover, a futures position of quantity 6000 and price change of Rs. 50 translates to 3L Rs. loss. Significant for me!
But more importantly, system error can recur, and can hit anyone.

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Any feedback on ICICIDirect, AxisDirect or HDFCSecurities please?

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These can not be alternative for Zerodha, as these are full service brokers, not discount ones.

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Fyers - same brokerage as zerodha
30 day challenge with brokerage refund upto 10k.
Web + desktop platform+ free api

Aliceblue- rs15 brokerage.
Web+ desktop platform.

If Zerodha is a discounted broker, than they are too, if that’s the word.

Not into promoting any broker. Anyone can google and find out.

2 Likes
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It doesnt matter whether they are full service of discounted. Also OK to pay an increased brokerage costs.

I need a reliable and trustworthy broker, who has a confirmation screen before order sending, and whose customer support at least knows how to respond to customer complaints with some sensible sentences instead of putting copy-paste definitions of irrelevant topics like “stop-loss order” and “margin requirements” .

At least, they should not ditch you with absurd responses when you need them the most!

Feedback on ICICIDirect, AxisDirect and HDFCSecurities will be welcome!

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Did some compare among the suggested alternatives over the weekend.
All are relatively cheaper than Zerodha as per their cost and brokerage calculators (attached comparative image), and provide higher net profits than Zerodha.

brokerage-compare
brokerage-compare1302×590 56.5 KB

Fyers is cheapest, then AliceBlue, then Zerodha. And functionality is similar across all.
Essentially, even within the discount brokers, Zerodha is relatively costlier!

Will update about others soon.

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How ‘good’ these brokers are can be deduced from the following facts:
1.) Neither Alice Blue and nor Fyers have added Stamp Duty in their Brokerage Calculator.
2.) While Fyers didn’t even updated its calculator with latest SEBI charges which are Rs.10 per crore.( The contract value in above case is 52 lakh so SEBI charges turns out to be Rs.5.24 as shown correctly in Zerodha while Fyers has shown only Rs.2.62 which was only valid till 31st March 2021 only as it was Rs.5 per crore till then).
3.) And clearly you haven’t even tried to add the charges in Alice Blue (Which turns out to be the highest at Rs.530 among the three after adding Rs.52 as well for Stamp Duty.
*They are charging huge Clearing charges and for some unknown reason their SEBI charges are also more than others.)

  • No transparency at all.
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Wondering if you are saying system placed order on it’s own without you punching it?