Upgrade Kite connect to a full fledged quantitative analysis tool like quantopian


#1

Hi, I feel like kite connect should be a more full-fledged quant platform for the retail public. In the global markets, there is a platform called quantopian. With it, you can :

1.correlate between assets
2.use math to find mean reversion points
3.Detect asset anomalies
4. Variance and other statistical measures for risk management
5.backtest/optimize trading strategies

And much more stuff that is absolutely not possible on a “basic trader” oriented platform like streak. Indians are quickly learning what the west has learned a decade ago that is “FINANCE IS NOT A ART BUT A SCIENCE”. BTW I was at a zerodha-nse investor awareness program yesterday and I was told by a gentleman named Kazi Rahman that @nithin had recently been on a trip to the US and was greatly appreciated by the Americans for building zerodha and its other platforms beautifully, CHEERS to That!!! Coming back, i feel what we need to take from the US is their technological approach to finance by:

  1. Either collaborating directly with quantopian to use their platform and charge users a kite data fee. OR
  2. Build a MADE IN INDIA Quantopian by Zerodha.

Points I’d like to put forth:

  1. The number one reason that more than 90% of the people lose money trading in India is due to the lack of thorough analysis of the backtests. Though streak provides a backtesting tool it is clearly not a solution for a more sophisticated retail trader. A platform by which a trader can program his own trading research into live trades or hire someone to do it for him will allow more retail traders to become profitable.

  2. The number one difference between an institutional trader and retail trader is that the institutional trader uses analytics to trade whereas the retailer uses a strategy posted online to put on trades. By providing a research platform the retail trader can make more informed decisions based on statistics, probability and also decide how much he should risk.

Please Do Look at it as a priority.

@nithin, @Sensibull @Streak @siva @kazi @Abid_E_H


#2

Quantopian itself pivoted their business model. There isn’t a big enough market to build out a Quantopian kind of business for India. Most people who trade don’t have programming knowledge and those who program don’t like the volatility of trading.

If you have programming knowledge, Kite connect has everything you need to do what you want to do.

Zipline is open source and is continuously updated by Quantopian. Google for Zipline, you will see everything you need to know and Kite connect has everything needed to power you.

If you don’t have programming knowledge, Quantopian and similar platforms isn’t really of any use. That is where a platform like Streak comes into play. Currently the strategies that Streak allows are technical analysis based, but over time it will include a lot more - at least that is the plan!


#3

Hi Nithin,
Streak says that full automating is not possible due to SEBI rules. But Zerodha itself had released APIs way back through with any novice coder can do full automation. I clearly dont understand it. Streak was marketed as an algorithmic trading product but it is merely a notification service.


#4

@Pankul_Tiwari

Algorithms is stands as taking action based set of rules/strategies (universal definition).
Common mis-conception - Algo trading == Auto trading , which is not true and was clearly covered in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-H97t-jGwE, removing all forms of misunderstanding and setting the definition and expectations right.

Streak based on you strategy tracks the market for both entry/exit and TP/SL along with providing a comprehensive and fast backtest to help you analyse and understand the risk of your strategy, so its not purely just notifications, instead its, near real-time identifications of backtested opportunities across scrips, enabling more disciplined and strategic trading.

We are constantly working on adding newer features to widen the spectrum of strategies which can be created with ease, backtested and tracked.


#5

By your definition then every one is an algorithmic trader, as every good manual trader follows his rules.
You say automated trading is not allowed by SEBI, then how come Zerodha launched APIs for trading through which anyone can auto trade.


#6

@Streak relevant question … How is this possible?


#7

but forgetting what the Indian consumer really needs, The feature know as “FOR FREE”.


#8

Like @Streak just mentioned, even though it is marketed as an algo trading platform, it isn’t really one as trades are still manual. You can algorithmically backtest and create alerts to trade.

About the APIs bit, currently the way exchange defines algo is if the brokerage offers an algo which trades automatically. All such algos need to be approved by the exchange. For example, we offer bracket orders which is an algo (execution of one, cancels or modifies another order). This is approved by the exchanges. Essentially what is defined as an algo is what resides on broker’s side.

So we don’t offer any algo, other than brackets. There are clients who have come built their own algos and gotten it approved at the exchanges through us. If you look at the Kite API terms and conditions, we tell clients to inform us and get approvals if they want to automate. In today’s world it is very tough to regulate that in any case, there are so many clients who use macros to link any web/desktop app and place orders through that.

On streak, since these algos to generate trade alert resides on our side, we will not be able to allow complete automation.


#9

So you are saying that Streak is not algo trading.


#10

Creating a strategy, backtesting, deploying, and generation of trade alert is an algorithm. But trading is manual and not an algorithm.


#11

I rest my case.


#12

As I said, it doesn’t cover all legs to qualify as full algo trading, since it doesn’t cover automated trading. Unfortunately, we can’t offer it due to regulations like explained above.

I am looking at their website and I get your point. Maybe they should clearly define that trading isn’t automated. It is mentioned, but only in one of the sub-sections.

@Streak ++


#13

It’s about the execution of trade. SEBI is not against algorithmic trading.

They are telling the execution has to be authorised each time by the owner.

In Kite API, it is making loophole you see. The code says that you are authorising it each time although you are not near the system.

You can automate streak. Just use Chrome driver. Hire some python geek for 2K.

Note it is illegal because you are hunting way to do a thing which is illegal. But it is easily doable.


#14

A loophole that was intentionally placed I would say.

As a person who is very passionate about algo trading, I find it really sad that the term is being made fun off in such a way.


#15

Quantopian like platform exists for Indian equities. Check out quantra Blueshift platform, its quantopian for India. It also has templates for common algo strategies- trend, mean reversion, pairs etc.


#16

Even if i do create an algo on Kite Connect API and get it approved
from the exchange i still have to login to KIte manually everyday right ?
IE it won’t work if i forget about it and don’t login to kite for a few days ?


#17

Yep, again exchange requirement.


#18

Does someone have a link or anything to install zipline locally? There are so many errors while installing it, it would be awesome if someone could help… @nithin @kkfx


#19

Found this ref:
https://pythonprogramming.net/zipline-local-install-python-programming-for-finance/

" Zipline only supports up to Python 3.5"


#20

@Pankul_Tiwari Pankul
i’ve tried this but sentdex himself is facing issues while installing it and also mentions it. i know that zipline only supports python 3.5 and pandas 0.18.0 but the issue is not knowing this but getting rid of the countless error. Selecting the directory in which i should install is also a problem i am facing and there is no definite video to install zipline through conda which by far is the most easiest way compared to pip and other methods.